Instructor shortage..

[mynameisjim]

I think the days of instructing to 'build time' are over, and it will be difficult to find instructors if you compensate, treat, and hire like they are 'building time'.

 

[SPilot]

Back when I had a work permit, I would bill an average of 27.1 hours a week. For that to happen, I would be at work from 7 in the morning 'til 9 in the evening, or later if I had a night flight, except Saturdays I would catch up on sleep until 9AM. For the most part I had excellent students, and a back-to-back schedule, but things always take time.

It was also regarded "courtesy" not to charge students accurately, i.e. always make 1 hour into 0.7, or charge 1 hour for 2 hours of ground instruction. It doesn't always seem right to charge students $100 for a quick 2-hour session, when I would only make $20.

 

[deadstick]

How many hours would you have to work to bill 30 or 40 hours every week?

This is where the work ethic and a proactive flight school come in. The CFI has to work hard to build a client base. Calling current clients: "Mr. Jones, Joe Smith from the Aero Club, I have an opening in the morning if you have the time." I've heard CFI's say "I'm not a salesman!" Yes they are. To succeed they have to sell themselves.

The flight schools have to get their names out. The schools have to efficiently schedule the resources, ie the CFI's and aircraft.

If both the CFI and the school are doing their parts, in a couple of months, before the CFIs are reaching the mins for the regionals, they should have a full schedule.

How many hours does it take? Idealy, you're at work for 8 and bill for 8, but we know this is not realistic. Taking lunch, a few minutes to prep before the next student, etc., 9 hours, maybe 9.5. Just like a normal job.

One thing that hurts BOTH the CFI and the school is the lost ground time. If the CFI does a brief at the beginning, then preflights with the student (there is always something to discuss), and a post-flight debrief, then there is no reason that a 1.3 hr flight shouldn't get the CFI 2.0 hrs. Many people would only add 0.2 or 0.3. You're just cheating yourself, and the company.

Let's take that example. Let say the CFI does not charge 0.2 hrs/sortie that SHOULD be charged (I'm NOT talking about padding the invoice), flies 4 sorties/day, 5 days/wk, and 50 wks/year...that CFI will lose 200 hours--that's $5000.

It adds up.

 

[flyf15]

One thing that hurts BOTH the CFI and the school is the lost ground time. If the CFI does a brief at the beginning, then preflights with the student (there is always something to discuss), and a post-flight debrief, then there is no reason that a 1.3 hr flight shouldn't get the CFI 2.0 hrs. Many people would only add 0.2 or 0.3. You're just cheating yourself, and the company.

Let's take that example. Let say the CFI does not charge 0.2 hrs/sortie that SHOULD be charged (I'm NOT talking about padding the invoice), flies 4 sorties/day, 5 days/wk, and 50 wks/year...that CFI will lose 200 hours--that's $5000.

It adds up.

I hate that CFIs do this, and students come to expect it. Ground time can often be much more valuable than flight time as far as what the student learns. I made sure my students knew that I was going to charge them from start of lesson to finish, but I was fair. If I took 5 minutes to go to the bathroom, eat a snack, etc between the ground and flight portions, I would take 0.1 off the bill and I would explain it to them while I was charging them. Your student is not your buddy from college, it is not your obligation to finance their training out of your pocket. You are a provider of a service and they are your customer.

I once had a student that couldn't understand why I was charging him 0.8 hours of ground time on lessons while his other CFIs charged him 0.2-0.3 and he told me I was ripping him off. Our average ground sessions were 1.0 or so, I was still giving him a good deal but it was engrained into his head that ground was "free". He also used to get really confused as to why he'd come in and we'd cancel due to weather, and I'd go to charge him for the hour we spent on the ground talking about stuff.

When I was independently instructing, I put a minimum charge on every lesson for coming out to the airport, commonly 2.0... and that was at $50/hr. But, they knew they were getting their money's worth/getting good instruction. They knew that I was going to dedicate that 2.0 to them and give them the best instruction available and be efficient and productive with their time. They knew that I was fair, everything was out in the open and understood well beforehand. And you know what? I, one of the most expensive instructors in the area (but also one of the most well regarded), was constantly turning down business while $20/hr CFIs that would give you free ground were having trouble mustering up students.

Don't advertise and try to win customers on costs. You advertise your capabilities, special traits, qualifications, experience, etc and your costs should fall in line with what you are providing. If the student isn't willing to pay it, then they can go somewhere else and pay half as much and get instruction that is 1/3 the quality.

 

[deadstick]

IBut, they knew they were getting their money's worth/getting good instruction.

BINGO! Provide a quality product, charge a premium price. I don't think Honda negotiates very much on their cars. They don't need to.

For the school, what are your averages? Are they less than the the national average? Are you 141? What's the safety record? Age of the aircraft? These are some selling points in comparison to "the other guy."

 

[JediNein]

We've got everything from jet instructors down to ink-wet CFIs at our airport. Rates are all over the place including a portion of the CFIs that will fly for free.

We tried the retired bunch of CFIs, as soon as something else comes up, they're gone.
The ink-wet bunch can work out fine, if they're willing to learn, but they don't last too long.
The dedicated career bunch has typically already been hanging a shingle for awhile and doesn't much care to work for someone else.

The problems running a school appear to be the same if one operates junkers or pristine aircraft. However, when the lav truck hits the turboprop, only one gets you through an accident/incident investigation without losing one's certificates. The business is lost either way.

If you're running a good school with good instructors, the averages are likely to be higher than the national ones. It takes more hours than 35 to get through the PTS, especially when working out of busy airports with towers and complex airspace.

 

[svcta]

I think a few of you, the ones who are counting the 1/4 million dollar cessnas as a matter-of-fact biz. expense, are forgetting that most flight schools are probably still leasing back their airplanes. If they're not, then they're just asking for problems with black and red ink. And I can see the benefit of having one or two new airplanes for those who will pay for it, but when I was teaching(granted it was a while ago) 90% of our students chose the cheaper airplanes and occasionally "treated" themselves to an hour in the new one. But never seemed to think it was worth training in it full-time.

My last gripe with working for a flight school was that even under 61 it seemed like everyone was trying to get so standardized that it took away from the real flight school experience. Used to be that "flight schools" were just a place where individual CFIs sort of congregated. Milled around and picked up students. The flight school was really more of a meeting ground than an institution. It was more fun then. Maybe some of you remember what I'm talking about, but I fully expect to be told how much better most of you think it is now.

Regarding pay.....I don't have a chip on my shoulder. It's just not worth the exposure for that kind of money..

 

[ChiFlyer]

Don't advertise and try to win customers on costs. You advertise your capabilities, special traits, qualifications, experience, etc and your costs should fall in line with what you are providing.

Well said. It took me a while to realize this when I first started instructing. Unfortunately it's not something that is ever taught and you just need to pick up on (If one ever picks up on it). The business skills you need are just as important that anything you had to know to pass your checkride but seems to be overlooked all the time. I hear other flight instructors complain all the time when they don't have students and are sitting on the computer doing nothing. They say they aren't being paid to answer the phones or sit behind the desk. True but how do you expect to get students then. Usually the instructors that have this mind set don't do too well. I've seen three quit, each one expected students to be handed to them b/c the FAA told them the could be an instructor.

The Savvy Flight Instructor (I forgot the author's name) is a more valuable book for me than the FOI, AFH and the PHAK. Yes you need to know your stuff but who are you going to teach if you can't get any students because your business skills suck. I would recommend this book to any new CFI and anyone who is unsure of what it means to be a Professional CFI.

 

[nosehair]

How many hours would you have to work to bill 30 or 40 hours every week?

on average, 60 to 80.

Yep, plan on it. With no-shows, weather, maint., etc., you should plan on approximately 1 hour non-revenue producing time for each 1 hour of revenue producing time. On average. Some days you might be at the airport 8-10 hours and only fly 2, other days, on really good days, you might get 6-8 billable hours out of 10.

That is really the main reason the job cannot be considered as a professional route. Not until you can be saleried or get 40-50 an hour which is really 20-25, which is still not very good.

 

[Goose Egg]

I could say that my days of instructing to build time are over, almost. I need another 185 hours for 135 IFR mins. I say it like "serenity now!"

Seriously though, I have enjoyed my time instructing, but I am ready to do something else. I'm just glad that the opportunity to do something else is presenting itself nowadays. Ten years ago guys would instruct 4-5 years before they got a break. The good old days... may they never return.

-Goose

I think the days of instructing to 'build time' are over, and it will be difficult to find instructors if you compensate, treat, and hire like they are 'building time'.

 

[deadstick]

With no-shows, weather, maint., etc., you should plan on approximately 1 hour non-revenue producing time for each 1 hour of revenue producing time.

I did this, too, when I was a new CFI, but I have seen the light. Many CFI's let no-shows slide and don't want to do ground. Value your time and make the client value your time. Don't sell yourselves short. How many students struggle through the oral, or don't make it to the flight portion of the checkride? As CFI's, your pass rate goal should be 100%.

There is always something to review. The schools should support this with a clause in the rental agreement and by keeping a credit card on file. The school loses money, too.

If you really like Ramen, let it slide, but you are just cheating yourself.

 

[transampilot]

The problem as I see it is a little bit like trickle down economics. In this post deregulation era a passenger sees a fare on TV for $39 MDW - ORL, and that's the one their going to buy. A regional airline will pay you 18-24 k as an F.O., and a flight school will charge $45/hr and give the instructor $15. Why do we cut each others throats? Because we have to make this "dream" of flying happen. My old school paid very well with benefits and that's why I stayed there atleat a year more than I had to. Not really for loyalty, but because I was already living cheaply, and couldn't afford to got to the airlines and take an at least $6000 paycut. I used to instruct 60-70 hrs a week and bill out 30 or 40 if I was lucky, then work nights at a well paying part time job 35 hrs a week, and still make less than my wife who was a brand new elementary school teacher who basically worked 8-5 with 4 months off a year. So why doesn't the FBO's pay better? Simple because the job that is their employess "goal" is going to pay the same or worse anyways, so why invest in a kid with Shiny jet Syndrome, or in my case dirty turboprop syndrome. We love to fly and that is why we put up with the fact that if you go to a 4 year school, with flight training, you will pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000+, and then make minimum wage for a long time and have to retire at 60. Not many other jobs have a "hobby" become your business, yet this hobby is more expensive than drugs. (also getting off my soap box)

 

[acaTerry]

Let's look at the numbers...

Assuming a school charges $125/hr for a 172R/S and $50/hr for the instructor:

The school pays the a/c owner $100/hr and the CFI $25/hr -- but tack on, say, 20% for benefits -- that make's the CFI cost $30/hr. This is a 40% margin on the CFI time and 20% on the plane for a total of $45/hr of dual. That works. But look at the expenses. Commercial office, computers, commercial internet service, gas, electricity, insurance, the front desk customer rep -- all of these expenses exist if the CFI bills out 1 hour of dual or 160 hours in a given month.

These are not trivial expenses. FYI a 2006 172SP with the G1000 was $241,000. An average insurance payment (rental/instruction) for just that ONE airplane is about $14-16,000 per year -- again whether it flies 1 hour or 800 hours in a year. The note payment was about $1800-2000/mo, too.

So, why should the CFI care? Would you rather teach is a 1977 POS 172 with 11,000 hours and Sperry coms or a new G1000 bird? Ever lost Navs AND Coms IMC? Ain't fun. The moral of the story is "What's good for the school is good for the CFI, and vice versa." It takes an understanding from both sides. The schools should respect the CFI's and treat them fairly. But the CFI's need to lose this attitude of "entitlement." Many of the up-and-coming young adults have lost the good ol' American work ethic and have added a chip on the shoulder.

I was sitting in this FBO a few months ago. This guy strutted in, chest puffed-out, talking like Roger Rudder. I thought I was in the presence of greatness (NOTE: dripping sarcasm). He was talking the airline talk, flames erupted from is mouth as he talked about scabs and management. Turns out this guy was a former Asst Chief CFI at that school and was doing a little CFI flying on the side. Yea, he had just finished IOE. I do have a point. In the 80’s, 8000 hrs, 3000+ ME turbine PIC was competitive with an airline, and the retail rate for an instructor was $15/hr. Ignoring inflation, the DCA instructors are making more now than the CFI’s of the 80’s. They were probably only making $7-8/hr. The point is that he thought he was Chuck Yeager with his 1000TT and that his poo didn’t stink. I’d be willing to bet that, if he’d been back in the pilot market of the 80’s, at a 1000TT and had been offered a job with an airline, he would have jumped at it regardless of any labor issues. Consequently, he’d be wearing the “Scarlet S” label today. Sorry, this wasn’t the point. The POINT was that this job market has been a lot worse. Folks getting on with the regionals today are extremely fortunate. Yet, many seem to feel that they have “paid their dues” by going around the pattern for 4-6 months.

It’s the sense of entitlement that is poisoning the work force from the CFI side. It’s the “do it as cheaply as possible” attitude that is attacking from the management side. CFI’s: if you like where you work. You have to be loyal to that company and work so the company succeeds. Otherwise, the company will go away. Nobody opens a business to lose money. School Owners: the planes do not fly without CFI’s. Rental is traditionally a small portion of the flight hours. Treat the CFI’s you have fairly and with respect, give them incentives to stay. If you help them succeed, the business will succeed. A happy employee makes the client happy. A happy client tells friends, and the word of mouth is the cheapest and most effective advertising.

One last point:
At 30 hrs billed/wk at $25/hr for 50 wks: $37,500
At 40 hrs billed/wk at $25/hr for 50 wks: $50,000

What’s the 1st year FO pay for the best regional?

Excluding, the airplane income the school will make $30,000 and $40,000, respectfully, for the same times for ONE CFI.

--Stepping down from the soapbox…

You forgot to tack on the up and coming USER FEES. There's another nail in the coffin.

 

[deadstick]

You forgot to tack on the up and coming USER FEES. There's another nail in the coffin.

IF we don't talk about "them," they won't exist, right?

 

[mattpilot]

The school i work for pays $13 an hour, while charging the student for $60/hr just for the instructor. Crazy, aint it? Then they wonder why CFI's leave after 6 months and there are no qualified instructors around who can teach initial-CFI applicants. You should see the backlog at our school. Its unbelievable.



Now for a moral question .... Say there is a huge backlog in initial-CFI applicants and only a very few instructors who are qualified. Would it be ethical to charge students extra (say $10-20/hr) in "tips" if you agreed to take them through the course?