Initial CFI Checkride

[kneeshoe]

I have my Initial CFI checkride next week with a person out of the Long Beach FSDO. I just wanted to know if anyone has taken their checkride with someone from there or had any pointers for the ride. I'm pretty nervous and don't really know what to expect.

 

[avl_pilot]

I've never had a check w/the FSDO in cali.,but I did in Florida. The best advice I can offer is something I'm sure you've been hearing for a while now, and that is just trust in your training and try to relax. Plan on a fairly lengthy oral and the flight portion isn't usually longer than an hour and a half. Just remember that you have to try to teach him/her something they already have a great deal of knowledge about(hopefully) so don't try to b.s. him/her. Try to have your FAR/AIM, logbook or any other useful items marked so you can easily back up your answer to questions. Get a good night rest and eat a full meal before going in. PM me if you have any specific questions I'll be glad to help.

 

[part61]

I had a ton of lesson plans premade with me and my examiner let me refrence them. (flordia FSDO)maybe write notes in your P.T.S.

 

[pilotpat]

All I can say is if you find yourself not talking during the flying portion, then you need to...not that I took mine in CA (it was in AZ), so I don't know what your guy will be like. Also, do not try to impress the guy with your vast knowledge on everything - if its anything like mine, he's going to be looking for you to put things into a simple light. Remember, you're going to be teaching primary students who know nothing. The more simplified you can make your explanations - the better. Good luck...it is the most difficult checkride out there, which is why a lot of people don't pass on the 1st time through.

 

[transampilot]

In my experience the checkride depends much upon the individual examiner. I took my ride in Illinois and different examiners have there different ways. My examiner put me through a 10 hour oral exam, and a 2 1/2 hour flight. Yet others I know that went throught the same FSDO got th oral done in 2 hours and the flight done In 1. The other person was not god's gift to student either. My advice is study your butt off and bring every FAA book you can find to the exam. The examiner I was with once through someone out of the oral for not bringing enough books.

 

[Almerick07]

Pictures, photo copy pictures of everything and make a binder full of lesson plans. when he asks about lazy eights bust out your lesson plan show him the picture and get to explaining. Turn his questions into discussions, I got my examiner to answer half of his own questions this way. Dont let them get you flustered, keep your cool and offer to look anything up you dont know. Know your regs. FOI, responsibilities all that technical stuff down cold. Besdies that just practice teaching everything under the sun, get the wording simple and effective. The flight is a breeze, I would concentrate about 5% of your effort on the flying portion the rest on the oral. good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[kneeshoe]

Thank you all for the useful suggestions. I have been continuing to study and am ready to just get this thing over with. I’ve heard horror stories of people with ridiculously long orals and am just afraid of talking myself into a hole. Please continue to give any more suggestions if you have them.

One more thing, I was looking through all my records and documents to make sure I have everything and came across an inconsistency. I never received an endorsement to take the FOI written exam, however already took it and passed it. The regs stated that I would need this endorsement. I really hope that won’t be a problem.

 

[nosehair]

I never received an endorsement to take the FOI written exam, however already took it and passed it. The regs stated that I would need this endorsement.

Nope. You don't need an endorsement to take the FOI or FIA knowledge tests. Confusing, I know. This is probably designed to be your first entanglement with the FAR's relating to training. Part 61. As an instructor, you must know Part 61 like a Pilot has to know Part 91. These are your everyday operating rules.

You are probably looking at 61.183(d) "Receive a logbook endorsement...on FOI listed in 61.185." If you look at 61.185, it says, "Must receive and log ground training on...FOI."
Then look at 61.183(g)"Receive a logbook endorsement on 61.187." If you look at 61.187(a), it says, ""The applicant's logbook must contain an endorsement certifying that the person is proficient to pass the test."

That last part, "...certifying that the person is proficient to pass the test", is the language used in all the other "endorsement" requirements for practical and/or knowledge tests. But that language is not present in the eligibility requirements for the CFI knowledge tests. The 61.183(d) endorsement is simply stating that you have given training in the FOI subjects, which is a required endorsement for the practical test. The endorsement should state that training was done, but does not have to make the statement that he is considered proficient to pass the test. However, the 61.187 endoresement for the practical test, which does make the proficiency statement, includes 61.187(b)(1)(i) fundamentals of instructing.

​

 

[kneeshoe]

Thanks for the interpretation nosehair. That's a relief, I'm glad I have everything in order. Can they make the regs any more confusing!?!

 

[kneeshoe]

Another Question

I know for other checkrides I have taken, I needed to have logged 3 hours of flight training within 60 days of the checkride. Does that also apply to the CFI initial checkride? I don't ever recall coming across that.

 

[Almerick07]

nope, no 3 hour rule

 

[kneeshoe]

nope, no 3 hour rule

Sweet! I can't afford to do another flight to reach the 3 hour mark. I am using all of the $$$ I have to pay for the flight for the checkride. I'm also happy that the FAA examiner doesn't have a fee.

 

[nosehair]

I don't ever recall coming across that.

You will notice, under the Eligibility, Knowledge, and Proficiency area of the FAR's for the CFI, (61.183 - 61.187) there is no Experience (flight hours) requirement, like there is for all other Pilot Certificates. Like 61.109 for Private lists the hours, which includes the 3 hours within 60 days requirement.
However, don't overlook 61.39, which lists, among other things, "...has received and logged training time within the previous 60 days." So, some dual preparation time has to be within the past 60 days.
​

 

[Almerick07]

Practiced maneuvers for about 10 hours from the right seat during my commercial training aced the flying portion of the CFI.

 

[kneeshoe]

Yet another question

I came across another question in studying for my checkride. Here it is:

I got a first class medical in January of 2004 (under age 40). Say I pass the checkride on Friday; can I act as a CFI as soon as I finish, or do I have to go get myself a first or second class medical?

 

[say again]

RELAX!!!!!!! That is the best advice to give. At this point, if you do not know the material your best bet is to postpone the "ride". You are psyching yourself out by thinking of every little detail possible. There's no need to give yourself a heart attack before your ride, that is what the students are for. So just relax, I'm sure you know the material, and enjoy the experience. If for some reason you not happen to pass, do some extra training, and ace it the second time!!!! The best of luck to ya!!!!!:beer:

 

[kneeshoe]

RELAX!!!!!!! That is the best advice to give. At this point, if you do not know the material your best bet is to postpone the "ride".

You're right, I really do need to just relax. The more I keep studying, the more questions I come up with, and the less I think I actually know. I've already had the checkride postponed twice (not by choice), but each time it happens I have a sigh of relief. But if anyone has an answer to the last question I posted, I'm still a little confused. Thanks for the responses everyone!

 

[say again]

I came across another question in studying for my checkride. Here it is:

I got a first class medical in January of 2004 (under age 40). Say I pass the checkride on Friday; can I act as a CFI as soon as I finish, or do I have to go get myself a first or second class medical?

According to my flight instructor buddy, you should be just fine with a 3rd class medical. It's been 4 years since I've instructed, and I can't even remember my flights for today. Hope it helps, and if I'm wrong (actually my buddy would be), I apologize!!!!

 

[kneeshoe]

I got a first class medical in January of 2004 (under age 40). Say I pass the checkride on Friday; can I act as a CFI as soon as I finish, or do I have to go get myself a first or second class medical?

People have told me that yes, I can instruct, but I found something else. 61.23 (a)(2) says, "Must hold at least a second-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate." Part 119.1(e)(1) says that a commerical pilot can conduct "student instruction"

Anyone have any other interpretations?

 

[schoolio]

When do you need a medical as a CFI?

14 CFR 61.23

(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person--
(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate -
(iv) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate, except for a flight instructor certificate with a glider category rating or sport pilot rating, if the person is acting as pilot in command or is serving as a required flight crewmember

(b) Operations not requiring a medical certificate. A person is not required to hold a valid medical certificate--
(5) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is not acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot flight crewmember

How long is it valid?

(d) Duration of a medical certificate.
(1) A first-class medical certificate expires at the end of the last day of -
(iii) The period specified in paragraph (d)(3) of this section for operations requiring a recreational pilot certificate, a private pilot certificate, a flight instructor certificate (when acting as pilot in command or a required pilot flight crewmember in operations other than glider or balloon), or a student pilot certificate.

(3) A third-class medical certificate for operations requiring a recreational pilot certificate, a private pilot certificate, a flight instructor certificate (when acting as pilot in command or a required pilot flight crewmember in operations other than glider or balloon), or a student pilot certificate issued -
(i) Before September 16, 1996, expires at the end of the 24th month after the month of the date of examination shown on the certificate; or
(ii) On or after September 16, 1996, expires at the end of:
(A) The 36th month after the month of the date of the examination shown on the certificate if the person has not reached his or her 40th birthday on or before the date of examination; or
(B) The 24th month after the month of the date of the examination shown on the certificate if the person has reached his or her 40th birthday on or before the date of the examination.

So, to summarize:

To be a CFI and act as PIC - third class medical or medical certificate that allows you to exercise third class privileges.

To be a CFI and not act as PIC (i.e. teaching a commercial student in an aircraft in which he is already rated, he is PIC) - no medical required.

First class medical is good for third class privileges for 36 calendar months.

To answer your question:

Yes, you can act as a CFI as soon as you pass your checkride. But you better know Part 61 if you want to pass the checkride.