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Info for Cpt of USAir 687-1/16/13-FDX Intl JS

Sluggo_63

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Jumpseating from PHX to EWR on 1/16 and when I went to go introduce myself to the crew, the Captain was interested that I was a FedEx guy. It seems that he got stuck at an international destination for a few extra days trying to get out, and was a little annoyed that FedEx won't take him on an international jumpseat back to the US. I tried to explain to him that it wasn't FedEx's policy, but the FAA's (I was actually wrong on that point, it isn't FedEx OR the FAA, but the TSA's policy). He told me "it's not the FAA, it's FedEx." I tried to explain to him about our lack of a inflight security coordinator (i.e. Flight Attendant) and that our whole upper deck is considered the 'flight deck' and just like I can't jumpseat on USAir internationally on the flight deck, neither can we allow offline jumpseaters on our "flightdeck," which, unfortunately includes the courier compartment. I could tell he still wasn't buying it, because he could jumpseat internationally on Atlas.

I apologized that he had to spend a few more days out and offered to get him some more information about the international jumpseat prohibition. I don't know about why Atlas is different than us with regard to international jumpseating, but if there's an Atlas guy/gal on here, maybe they could explain.

Either way, if the Captain of USAir 687 PHX-EWR on 16 Jan 13 reads this forum, or someone know who he is, please point him here and pass this information along. Again, it's not FedEx who is denying the jumpseat internationally, but the TSA, and hopefully it will change sooner rather than later.

I appreciate the ride home and thanks for the hospitality.

Update to International Jumpseat

The TSA has had a prohibition on international jumpseating since 2001. You can't ride in an American, Delta or Continental cockpit right now just as they can't ride in ours. They have in-flight security coordinators designated behind the IRCD in flight--so they can extend an open cabin seat--ONLY--to a jumpseater. Our entire upper deck becomes the "flight deck" any time the IRCD is opened. Remember how we operated with the Supernumerary pilots being scheduled to ride in the back as in-flight security coordinators to try and keep up with TSA AOSSP mandates (Aircraft Operators Standard Security Program)? So, if you try to ride a US carrier abroad--you will be denied the cockpit just like are forced to deny the cockpit, by the regulators--not FedEx. The only exception to this is Puerto Rico--in which management--not ALPA has elected to leave closed. I have repeatedly ask them to open those stations--which are DOMESTIC as far as the TSA is concerned, and where we have other US carriers offering us the cockpit jumpseat.

Now, having said all this--there is potential relief on the way, which is leading to the rumors. Pistole, in response to a white paper I wrote in DC with ALPA National Staff, has finally approved international flight deck access via CASS to US carriers that maintain a MCL. We do. All long haul international US carriers do. However, this will come on just like the evolution of CASS. One carrier at time, and at a trickle. Just like CASS. Every air carrier has to change software, and amend all manuals and technical writing to incorporate this provision into their AOSSP and operations software. Plus--an operator can't even start until each air carriers individual TSA PSS initiates it. Further ARINC, the CASS server host, has to incorporate "fences" to maintain integrity of CASS access to the flight deck for those few air carriers that maintain an MCL only. If an off line CASS pilot gets into the flight deck abroad that is not on an MCL, that aircraft will not be allowed entry into US airspace. That check doesn't happen until four hours prior to that point. Therefore, any diversion would cost an airline hundreds of thousands of dollars and would risk operators opting out of CASS to prevent future problems.

So our hands--just as every other major airlines hands--are still somewhat tied by the regulators. I am sure you well know by now how fast regulation change takes place at the Federal government level of TSA and FAA. Ever heard of flight and duty times and the FAA reauthorization bill?

This is just another example of what ALPA does for you that gets no exposure. It's all going on, and the FedEx committees involved work it every day behind the scenes. Updates are communicated via the message line, the website, AirLine pilot magazine, P2P and textcaster. If you don't regularly visit those venues or have auto feed to your devices and email, I would highly recommend you do so that you get that information as soon as changes apply.
 

Grandpa +65

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Quote:"Jumpseating from PHX to EWR on 1/16 and when I went to go introduce myself to the crew, the Captain was interested that I was a FedEx guy. It seems that he got stuck at an international destination for a few extra days trying to get out, and was a little annoyed that FedEx won't take him on an international jumpseat back to the US. I tried to explain to him that it wasn't FedEx's policy, but the FAA's (I was actually wrong on that point, it isn't FedEx OR the FAA, but the TSA's policy). He told me "it's not the FAA, it's FedEx." I tried to explain to him about our lack of a inflight security coordinator (i.e. Flight Attendant) and that our whole upper deck is considered the 'flight deck' and just like I can't jumpseat on USAir internationally on the flight deck, neither can we allow offline jumpseaters on our "flightdeck," which, unfortunately includes the courier compartment. I could tell he still wasn't buying it, because he could jumpseat internationally on Atlas".

FeDEX does not allow off-line pilots jumpseat from Memphis to San Juan, PR. which is a USA territory ( I dont know why) . I had been in many UPS Jumpseat from Louisville to San Juan, PR. I do ride in the flight deck of the MD11, A300 and 767 with no problem.. So, I think this FEDEX policy is something that guys has to get rid of it.
 
Last edited:

dash8driver

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Its not just Atlas that allows it. Evergreen allows it and Polar allowed it before they were merged into Atlas. There is no IRCD on those planes and the whole upper deck is the flight deck. Not sure about the other cargo carriers though.

It had been told to me previously by a FedEx pilot that it was an issue with management. I don't know one way or the other, but it seems odd that you can ride on some cargo carriers but not others.
 

dugan jones

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Its not just Atlas that allows it. Evergreen allows it and Polar allowed it before they were merged into Atlas. There is no IRCD on those planes and the whole upper deck is the flight deck. Not sure about the other cargo carriers though.

It had been told to me previously by a FedEx pilot that it was an issue with management. I don't know one way or the other, but it seems odd that you can ride on some cargo carriers but not others.

Probably has something to do with a jumpseater attacking the crew with a spear gun at FedEx
 

Sluggo_63

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Quote:"Jumpseating from PHX to EWR on 1/16 and when I went to go introduce myself to the crew, the Captain was interested that I was a FedEx guy. It seems that he got stuck at an international destination for a few extra days trying to get out, and was a little annoyed that FedEx won't take him on an international jumpseat back to the US. I tried to explain to him that it wasn't FedEx's policy, but the FAA's (I was actually wrong on that point, it isn't FedEx OR the FAA, but the TSA's policy). He told me "it's not the FAA, it's FedEx." I tried to explain to him about our lack of a inflight security coordinator (i.e. Flight Attendant) and that our whole upper deck is considered the 'flight deck' and just like I can't jumpseat on USAir internationally on the flight deck, neither can we allow offline jumpseaters on our "flightdeck," which, unfortunately includes the courier compartment. I could tell he still wasn't buying it, because he could jumpseat internationally on Atlas".

FeDEX does not allow off-line pilots jumpseat from Memphis to San Juan, PR. which is a USA territory ( I dont know why) . I had been in many UPS Jumpseat from Louisville to San Juan, PR. I do ride in the flight deck of the MD11, A300 and 767 with no problem.. So, I think this FEDEX policy is something that guys has to get rid of it.
I agree. Not being able to jumpseat to PR on FedEx is a management thing. Other international destinations is the TSA, not FedEx. Out JS guy (who also happens to be the national guy) is working on the PR issue. Everything else is out of our hands, unfortunately.
 

Sluggo_63

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Its not just Atlas that allows it. Evergreen allows it and Polar allowed it before they were merged into Atlas. There is no IRCD on those planes and the whole upper deck is the flight deck. Not sure about the other cargo carriers though.

It had been told to me previously by a FedEx pilot that it was an issue with management. I don't know one way or the other, but it seems odd that you can ride on some cargo carriers but not others.
As much as I'd like to pin it on them, it's not management. UPS has the same restriction wrt international jumpseating. The only thing that I can think of is that maybe the TSA looks at scheduled vs non-scheduled operations differently.
 

Sluggo_63

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Not trying to argue but the Captain is considered to be the IFSC.
You are correct. I think the point of it is, in our world, when a guy gets up out of the seat to go to the back, there is no flight attendant to block the door with a beverage cart, and no one else is up front with the pilot.
 

IBNAV8R

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What is an MCL?
 

get2flyin

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Sluggo,
Normally, I'd at least try and put myself in the shoes of the Captain because that's a USAir West number and most of our guys are really cool. Maybe he had a bad day, got beat up by his wife, etc. I looked up the flight to see who it was and, imagine my lack of surprise when I saw he blocks his identity in our scheduling system. That's normally an indicator of a problem child. Using a round about way to figure it out...

All I can do is apologize for this guy. He's *VERY* unpopular among our pilot group because he lacks the social skill-set to know how to talk to someone in a way that doesn't come across as wildly confrontational. The Schedulers can't stand him. The flight attendants *HATE* him. Then again, I flew with him last year and had a surprisingly good trip. Maybe he was on meds or something. Even the F/A's who went through a range of hateful gyrations when I told them who the Captain was commented on his good behavior. I've suspected he was fresh from a carpet danced in front of the Chief Pilot regarding his antics but who knows.

Anyway, if you didn't catch it...when you left, the FO said, "Don't worry about it" under his breath. Also, on our flights to Mexico you can't ride in our jumpseat due to TSA regs or some such thing so he's on pretty thin ice giving you the what-for. Ignore him and please feel free to use our jumpseat any time you like. We're happy to have you riding along.
 

Guppiedriver

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Sluggo,
Normally, I'd at least try and put myself in the shoes of the Captain because that's a USAir West number and most of our guys are really cool. Maybe he had a bad day, got beat up by his wife, etc. I looked up the flight to see who it was and, imagine my lack of surprise when I saw he blocks his identity in our scheduling system. That's normally an indicator of a problem child. Using a round about way to figure it out...

All I can do is apologize for this guy. He's *VERY* unpopular among our pilot group because he lacks the social skill-set to know how to talk to someone in a way that doesn't come across as wildly confrontational. The Schedulers can't stand him. The flight attendants *HATE* him. Then again, I flew with him last year and had a surprisingly good trip. Maybe he was on meds or something. Even the F/A's who went through a range of hateful gyrations when I told them who the Captain was commented on his good behavior. I've suspected he was fresh from a carpet danced in front of the Chief Pilot regarding his antics but who knows.

Anyway, if you didn't catch it...when you left, the FO said, "Don't worry about it" under his breath. Also, on our flights to Mexico you can't ride in our jumpseat due to TSA regs or some such thing so he's on pretty thin ice giving you the what-for. Ignore him and please feel free to use our jumpseat any time you like. We're happy to have you riding along.

Are you sure you checked the right day/flight? I did a search for 687/16 and the captains line was not restricted.
 

InTransit

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Sluggo, that's very nice of you to type out a letter of explanation/apology to a jerk captain. If he knew anything about jumpseat etiquette and FedEx jumpseat rules he wouldn't have, or shouldn't have been taking it out on you. Any similar circumstance that I face usually involves me writing down the info to take to my carrier jumpseat coordinator. Not much else can be done.
 

get2flyin

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Are you sure you checked the right day/flight? I did a search for 687/16 and the captains line was not restricted.

One of us is looking at the wrong thing. I just checked again and it was. Either way, water under the bridge now.
 

Sluggo_63

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Sluggo,
Normally, I'd at least try and put myself in the shoes of the Captain because that's a USAir West number and most of our guys are really cool. Maybe he had a bad day, got beat up by his wife, etc. I looked up the flight to see who it was and, imagine my lack of surprise when I saw he blocks his identity in our scheduling system. That's normally an indicator of a problem child. Using a round about way to figure it out...

All I can do is apologize for this guy. He's *VERY* unpopular among our pilot group because he lacks the social skill-set to know how to talk to someone in a way that doesn't come across as wildly confrontational. The Schedulers can't stand him. The flight attendants *HATE* him. Then again, I flew with him last year and had a surprisingly good trip. Maybe he was on meds or something. Even the F/A's who went through a range of hateful gyrations when I told them who the Captain was commented on his good behavior. I've suspected he was fresh from a carpet danced in front of the Chief Pilot regarding his antics but who knows.

Anyway, if you didn't catch it...when you left, the FO said, "Don't worry about it" under his breath. Also, on our flights to Mexico you can't ride in our jumpseat due to TSA regs or some such thing so he's on pretty thin ice giving you the what-for. Ignore him and please feel free to use our jumpseat any time you like. We're happy to have you riding along.
Thanks. No need to apologize. I'm pretty thick skinned. It just seemed to me he didn't buy my explanation, and when I tried to explain how I couldn't ride on USAir internationally in the cockpit, he took it as that was why we were retaliating against him but not letting him jumpseat on us.

It's all good, though.

As I left, I did lock eyes with the FO in that silent mind meld that only FO's have. His eyes said "sorry about that," mine replied "don't feel sorry for me... you're the one that's gotta sit up here with him for the next 5 hours."

Truly, thanks for the ride, and hopefully we can reciprocate one day.
 

b82rez

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As I left, I did lock eyes with the FO in that silent mind meld that only FO's have. His eyes said "sorry about that," mine replied "don't feel sorry for me... you're the one that's gotta sit up here with him for the next 5 hours."

Great description. Funny stuff
 
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