Inflight refueling

[hawg2hawk]

I've refueled fixed wing (A-10) from the boom and rotary wing (HH-60) from the drogue. I'd have to say that the drogue is more difficult, but whether that holds true for fixed wing drogue refueling I couldn't say. There's a lot of close-in receiver (trailing aircraft) movement involved with helicopter drogue refueling, which really got my attention the first time I did it. The stabilize, get stuck and hold what you got method of boom refueling is pretty tranquil compared with refueling in the helo, where you make a run at the basket from 5 or 10 feet back, hit it, and then reposition up and left (or right) to get away from the HC-130's horizontal stabilizer. As someone else noted, the basket isn't very far from the tip path of the rotor. It can also get pretty interesting on goggles or in turbulence. There are also enough light signals to piss off the pope.

Whoever mentioned IMC, that's a given any time you cross either ocean. There is a special course on seeking out IFR conditions at tanker school, you know. If it's CAVU except for a layer at FL210, guess where your ALTRV is, and no block for you.

You haven't really lived until you've spent a couple hours as #3 on the tanker's wing in that thick cumulus stuff over the North Atlantic. Doing it on the wing a KC-10 increases the enjoyment even more since something makes them surge back and forth a little, which plays crack the whip with your 1LTs. Any KC-10 guys out there that can explain that one?

Having said all that, the tanker guys really loved us in the A-10, spanning the globe at FL230 at a blistering 220 indicated. What flap setting is that in a KC-135 anyway?

 

[spongebob]

Not so fast H2H

Hawg2hawk,

I gotta disagree. You had the advantage of flying a nimble hog to a boom. When comparing refueling from a boom to a heavy (about 750000 lbs) to refueling to a hawk, the 60 is considerably easier.

SB

 

[dtfl]

Try doing it in a Chinook where the drogue comes 6' under the rotor disk. That can get very interesting on a dark bumpy night.

Try being the pilot of the -130 that can hear your rotors And feel the right wing lift when yall moved in for the right hose and cobbed your power - all that poor air yall beat into submission swirling around my trailing edge....

Whenever Id have VIPs or teams I would tell them to go back and look out the window on the para door. They'd get an eyeful (On goggles) of -47. Funny.

At least yall had enough power to refuel at altitude...those poor MH53s....

 

[hawg2hawk]

Hawg2hawk,

I gotta disagree. You had the advantage of flying a nimble hog to a boom. When comparing refueling from a boom to a heavy (about 750000 lbs) to refueling to a hawk, the 60 is considerably easier.

SB

Very true.

I have some buddies that fly the C-5, and I believe AR is a whole separate qualification, and the school for it is something like 3 weeks long. True?

My refueling "school" was 10 minutes during the brief, then an "OK, now watch" as my IP demo'd it. Then I did it. No 2 seaters in the A-10.

It would be interesting in a heavy airplane.

 

[spongebob]

When I flew the C-5 it was a separate school (although many guys did the AC school at the same time). In the HH-60, everyone is qualed and it takes about two hours in an afternoon to figure it out. The worst you get is maybe two misses. Now if I was ever engine out in the 60, can't guarantee I would make it.


SB

 

[hawg2hawk]

When I flew the C-5 it was a separate school (although many guys did the AC school at the same time). In the HH-60, everyone is qualed and it takes about two hours in an afternoon to figure it out. The worst you get is maybe two misses. Now if I was ever engine out in the 60, can't guarantee I would make it.
SB

Land on the wing!

 

[GasPasser]

To answer Hawg2Hawk's question about 135 flaps at 220 KIAS, it depends on the gross weight of the tanker. At heavy weights where 0 flap maneuvering speed is going to be near 200 KIAS (the A-10 guys nearly always ask for speeds less than the dash 3 T.O. AR speeds), we'll go 20 flaps, but then we have to watch flap placard speed (230 KIAS at 20 degrees). Naturally, we prefer 0 flaps for the smoother ride and lower fuel burn. If we won't be turning at all, we'll watch the AOA gauge and make sure we're OK at 0 flaps for the desired speed.

 

[91100 100 set]

this is a fascinating thread guys...

 

[hawg2hawk]

Hawg2hawk,

I gotta disagree. You had the advantage of flying a nimble hog to a boom. When comparing refueling from a boom to a heavy (about 750000 lbs) to refueling to a hawk, the 60 is considerably easier.

SB

I think flying an HH-60 to the drogue is harder than flying an A-10 to the boom.

Would it be harder to fly a C-5 to a boom, or if suitably equipped, to a drogue?

 

[Starman]

2 Doesn't the wake from that KC135 royally screw with the smaller jets???

Actually it's harder on the larger aircraft. The forces hitting the verticle stab on a C-130 when it's behind a KC-135 have to be felt to be believed.

The really odd thing is that if you are drifting left, you need to hold in left aileron and slowly release it to return to position. If you try and put in right aileron, you'll wind up overshooting and doing the yoyo thing until the dreaded "breakaway, breakaway, breakaway" call comes. Not that I've ever heard that for real.