Inflight refueling

[9GClub]

Jetboys (and girls),

Every time I've ever seen a shot of aerial refueling ops (-135s, KC-10s, etc.), the aircraft (both the tanker and the refuelees) appear to be in a shallow bank..... is this SOP or am I drunk? I vaguely remember directing this question to a military pilot awhile back, and I believe his response was "No, SOP is straight and level....." I'm not convinced......

Also, for any of you military folks out there, how difficult is this operation? I'm guessing the basket is a bit easier than the boom..... how the heck do y'all do this thing in some jets (Viper, etc.) when the doors are on the dorsal spine behind you?

Cirrus should look into making a probe standard equipment on the SR22..... along with the 'chute. And a snackbar and washing machine and makeup kit.

 

[MachPi]

Refueling can be done in any controlled attitude. Doesn't matter what the bank is, although I seem to remember 30 deg was the reg limit. Anthing more than that in level flight and the mounting gee made it harder to do for any length of time.

Like any part of flying, with experience comes ease. Hooking up over the pacific in bumpy weather for 45 minutes of AR isn't something a newbie could do, but that same guy a couple years later should be able to do it. At that proficiency point, the main problem is trying not to zone off, which is problematic with half a million pounds of KC10 just a few feet from your windscreen.

Also, as far as how it's done: the navy drives up to the drogues, which are just trailing out there. The AF gets in the boom's neighborhood (the envelope), then the boom operator 'flies' the boom into the receptacle.

How do you know where the envelope is? Same way a driver on the road knows where he is in his lane, and how far away he is from the middle stripe: he uses (even if only subconsciously) visual aids. For example, the driver might know he's within a foot and a half of the white line because, from his perspective, the white line disappears below his windscreen right at the first bend the windshield wiper makes. Exactly the same principle used in AR.

 

[Sarka]

I used to fly AR's in KC-130's years ago and if I remember right MachPI is right about the 30 deg bank limit (might have been 20 deg...can't remember for sure). It may depend on a/c type. Straight and level is preferred, but many AR's are conducted using a racetrack pattern, which could account for the photos while banking also.

I also flew on a couple AR photo missions and I think the photog's just find that a shot with the the planes in a bank is more astetically pleasing. It just looks better. That's probably why you see them in banks in most of the shots.

 

[RJP]

What you're seeing is the tanker after the fighter flight-lead has finished his refuelling. After the straight-and-level portion of the track is finished there's a mandatory radio call from the tanker. "Uh, xxx flight, we're now 'autopilot off' and the co-pilot is flying. Turning in one mile". This is at the exact moment the wingman of xxx flight is pulling into the pre-contact position.

Honest.

 

[TonyC]

While aerial refueling can theoretically be accomplished at any bank angle (we demoed 90 degrees at CFIC) the normal limit is 30 degrees, and the vast majority is conducted wings level, level flight. It can also be conducted in a climb or descent, but the vast majority is conducted straight and level.


The next time you're on the interstate, find an 18-wheeler, and pull up behind him real close. I mean like 12 inches close. When you're that close, you'll immediately identify references on the back of the trailer that you can use to stop your movement relative to the trailer. If it moves left, you'll immediately want to correct to the left, etc. IT will move, to be sure - - and you'll move - - at that distance the airflow around the trailer will make your vehicle do things you're not familiar with. OH, and you'll want to keep the brake lights in your peripheral vision and your toe near the brake pedal just in case. This will give you a slight appreciation for A/R from a two-dimensional perspective. Add in the third dimension (up and down) and quadruple the speed, and you'll be in the right neighborhood.


NO, NO, NO, NO ! Don't do that - - do NOT tailgate the 18-wheeler. It's dangerous!

Oh, which reminds me of a WARNING in the flight manual - - flying in close vertical proximity to another aircraft is HAZARDOUS!


Duh.

 

[Eagleflip]

Don't forget that there are two generic rules are always in effect for fighter pilots during ocean-crossing refueling ops:

1. When getting gas, you will be IMC. Every time.

2. ...And you will think that you are darn near 90 degrees of bank no matter what.

That crazy vestibular system...there isn't any way around it, anyone doing refueling in the weather will at some point think...nope, they'll know the tanker is being flown by Bob Hoover, doing gentle aerobatics all the while. Or maybe Tex Johnston. Heck, maybe CitationKid's flying the dang thing for all I know. One thing is for certain.

They're trying to kill you.

Just about the time you are ABSOLTELY POSITIVE that guy has gone ape and is enjoying his little session of "let's toy with the stumpy fighter pilot, do wingovers and drink hot brewed coffee," you happen a glance down to the ADI and discover...

...3 degrees of bank to the left.

D'oh!

Then it's off the boom, up to the wing, fly into the clear. Double d'oh!

 

[Sarka]

The next time you're on the interstate, find an 18-wheeler, and pull up behind him real close. I mean like 12 inches close. When you're that close, you'll immediately identify references on the back of the trailer that you can use to stop your movement relative to the trailer. If it moves left, you'll immediately want to correct to the left, etc. IT will move, to be sure - - and you'll move - - at that distance the airflow around the trailer will make your vehicle do things you're not familiar with. OH, and you'll want to keep the brake lights in your peripheral vision and your toe near the brake pedal just in case. This will give you a slight appreciation for A/R from a two-dimensional perspective. Add in the third dimension (up and down) and quadruple the speed, and you'll be in the right neighborhood.


NO, NO, NO, NO ! Don't do that - - do NOT tailgate the 18-wheeler. It's dangerous!

Oh, which reminds me of a WARNING in the flight manual - - flying in close vertical proximity to another aircraft is HAZARDOUS!


Duh.

Living on the edge Tony!

 

[minitour]

...1. When getting gas, you will be IMC. Every time.
...

well that was one of my questions...thanks

the other ones:

1 Doesn't that really f*ck with weight and ballance of both planes? One is getting heavier while the other is getting lighter...so wouldn't that also f*ck with airspeed, stall speed, power settings (you'd have to adjust to stay in the right place?), etc???

2 Doesn't the wake from that KC135 royally screw with the smaller jets???

Good stuff here guys...awesome.

 

[MachPi]

When you're refueling in the envelope, you're always making tiny corrections of your power, attitude, blah blah blah. I suppose if the tanker flew perfectly, the weather was perfect, and the stars aligned, you might notice the subtle overall increase in power you'd need to keep up with the tanker in your now heavier plane. But really, with all the minute corrections you make during receiver AR, the weight and balance becomes lost in the effort.

The only time I recall it ever being something you needed to attend to was when you were refueling to max weight, and I mean max weight. Above 580k or so in the -10, the FE kept an eye on the thrust settings to make sure we didn't overboost. It wasn't a giant deal if you did go over, but you didn't want to sit on the other side of MCT redline forever without knowing about it.

 

[Sarka]

well that was one of my questions...thanks

the other ones:

1 Doesn't that really f*ck with weight and ballance of both planes? One is getting heavier while the other is getting lighter...so wouldn't that also f*ck with airspeed, stall speed, power settings (you'd have to adjust to stay in the right place?), etc???

2 Doesn't the wake from that KC135 royally screw with the smaller jets???

Good stuff here guys...awesome.

1. Yes. The CG of both a/c will change which cause continual adjustments, but you really have to pass alot of gas (pun intended) to make significant changes.

2. I've always been on the leading side, not the trailing side. Although, when refueling helo's you can really feel the rotor beat throughout the entire a/c. In a 130, we were at max-get-it to refuel jets and the jets were near stall speed. When tanking helo's, it was just the opposite. We'd be just above stall and the helo would be at max speed.