Inflight refueling

[FastCargo]

My refueling story...

Back about a decade ago...

Doing a night refueling in the B-1B over South Dakota. The weather was lots of high thin cirrus, some stratus...you know...lots of ice crystals. Vis was about a mile to 1/2 mile in the stuff (which of course we have to refuel right in the middle of).

The B-1B's receptacle is just in front of the windscreen, no more than about 6 feet from your face. As we get closer to the tanker, we can hear some very slight crackling in the headset from the static building of flying through the WX.

You can guess what happens next. As he goes to plug us, at about 3 feet, the air between the receptacle and the boom lights up with HUNDREDS of electric discharges! It looks like something out of a bad scifi movie. We can actually hear the powerline-like 'hum' through the airframe of the aircraft.

I pause for a second to let my instructor make the call (hey, I was still a wet behind the ears copilot). He doesn't say anything, so we continue and plug up. We take on a token onload, and then stay on for a bit for training. Finally, we disconnect, getting the discharge again on separation.

We continue the mission, come back and land. During the debrief, the instructor comments that maybe we shouldn't have continued the refueling with the electric light show. Of course, my next thought was "Why the hell didn't you say that during the A/R!?!" What i said was "Uh, yes sir."

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** instructors!

Fly Safe!
FastCargo

 

[MooseTrax]

Right On Swede

My favorite call from the boomer while I was the IP with a student learning to AR was "forward 1". I have actually said, "so forward 1 means I am at 13', just plug us because the envelope is 6'-18'" right....it is an envelope not a single position. I can't stand those calls!---forward 1 or 2 before they will even plug you. Now once in position a forward 3 or 4 call is nice.

 

[Mongoose69]

Best call by a boomer

Heh, best call I ever heard by a boomer:

I was #4 of a 6-ship of Strike Eagles on our way to Vegas (baby!). One of my good friends was #6. Right after takeoff, we all hook up for squirt checks just to make sure everything is working as advertised. The -135 crew was ANG, so the boomer just basically stabbed me when I got somewhere in his envelope and didn't say another word till he disconnected. So my buddy gets plugged, and shortly after, we hear this over the radio:

"Right 8"

silence...

"That's better"

Many beverages were purchased...

-Mongoose

 

[MooseTrax]

Hey Sandman.....

There is no learning experience quite like when you are learning as the reciever and you have a boomer who is learning too. Some days at Altus it was just bad training all the way around and downright scary. I remember going thru the course and thinking "I don't know quite what the hell I'm doing and neither does that boom student.....this ought to be good".

 

[sandman2122]

Moose,

I can only imagine what the -135 boomers were thinking seeing a C-141 or C-5 A/R "student" weaving his way in for their first plug.....pucker factor must be through the ceiling......

 

[dtfl]

Well...in AFSOC we never talked and there were no lights, usually. We chatted through the boom, of course. Now, take a crew of 15 on a gunship - we hook up - you can guess what the 135 crew hears...until I yell on hot mic...GET OFF INTERPHONE!!!

Yeah....I had to be an AC and a Dad at times.

The best - we tobogganed in a gunship and the tanker started a level off - the PD lights started ticking backward like those moving Xmas lights...the AC got in a quick "..BYE!!" before we got kicked off - this was at TO power also. So the big joke was - .."When the tanker levels off you have to get in a word before you get kciked off"

 

[414Flyer]

I saw a photo of F-104s tanking from a KC-97. Now that would have been interesting.

 

[The Saint]

Ok no jokes about going both ways..... I have refued via boom (A-10) and taken and given gas via drogue (Tornado we could carry a buddy buddy pod) as well as get gas from a tanker. I got to say i though the drogue was easier and more fun but also easier to fall off of. The boom has something like 4000 lbs of grip the drogue like 100. Also with the tornado heavy and high we would plug one engine in min afterburner and then use the other throttle to stay in. Had to stay on the tanker alot longer though to fill up

 

[ch47d]

Try doing it in a Chinook where the drogue comes 6' under the rotor disk. That can get very interesting on a dark bumpy night.

 

[TGR]

I never liked the KC-10. That center engine really beat-up our T-tail in the C-5! 135s were easy. Just stay between # 2 + 3 and your good. Though, if you got spit outside of them you were gone. (And trying to do the reverse control thing to get back in.)

Either way, always happy for the gas.

 

[hawg2hawk]

I've refueled fixed wing (A-10) from the boom and rotary wing (HH-60) from the drogue. I'd have to say that the drogue is more difficult, but whether that holds true for fixed wing drogue refueling I couldn't say. There's a lot of close-in receiver (trailing aircraft) movement involved with helicopter drogue refueling, which really got my attention the first time I did it. The stabilize, get stuck and hold what you got method of boom refueling is pretty tranquil compared with refueling in the helo, where you make a run at the basket from 5 or 10 feet back, hit it, and then reposition up and left (or right) to get away from the HC-130's horizontal stabilizer. As someone else noted, the basket isn't very far from the tip path of the rotor. It can also get pretty interesting on goggles or in turbulence. There are also enough light signals to piss off the pope.

Whoever mentioned IMC, that's a given any time you cross either ocean. There is a special course on seeking out IFR conditions at tanker school, you know. If it's CAVU except for a layer at FL210, guess where your ALTRV is, and no block for you.

You haven't really lived until you've spent a couple hours as #3 on the tanker's wing in that thick cumulus stuff over the North Atlantic. Doing it on the wing a KC-10 increases the enjoyment even more since something makes them surge back and forth a little, which plays crack the whip with your 1LTs. Any KC-10 guys out there that can explain that one?

Having said all that, the tanker guys really loved us in the A-10, spanning the globe at FL230 at a blistering 220 indicated. What flap setting is that in a KC-135 anyway?

 

[spongebob]

Not so fast H2H

Hawg2hawk,

I gotta disagree. You had the advantage of flying a nimble hog to a boom. When comparing refueling from a boom to a heavy (about 750000 lbs) to refueling to a hawk, the 60 is considerably easier.

SB

 

[dtfl]

Try doing it in a Chinook where the drogue comes 6' under the rotor disk. That can get very interesting on a dark bumpy night.

Try being the pilot of the -130 that can hear your rotors And feel the right wing lift when yall moved in for the right hose and cobbed your power - all that poor air yall beat into submission swirling around my trailing edge....

Whenever Id have VIPs or teams I would tell them to go back and look out the window on the para door. They'd get an eyeful (On goggles) of -47. Funny.

At least yall had enough power to refuel at altitude...those poor MH53s....

 

[hawg2hawk]

Hawg2hawk,

I gotta disagree. You had the advantage of flying a nimble hog to a boom. When comparing refueling from a boom to a heavy (about 750000 lbs) to refueling to a hawk, the 60 is considerably easier.

SB

Very true.

I have some buddies that fly the C-5, and I believe AR is a whole separate qualification, and the school for it is something like 3 weeks long. True?

My refueling "school" was 10 minutes during the brief, then an "OK, now watch" as my IP demo'd it. Then I did it. No 2 seaters in the A-10.

It would be interesting in a heavy airplane.

 

[spongebob]

When I flew the C-5 it was a separate school (although many guys did the AC school at the same time). In the HH-60, everyone is qualed and it takes about two hours in an afternoon to figure it out. The worst you get is maybe two misses. Now if I was ever engine out in the 60, can't guarantee I would make it.


SB

 

[hawg2hawk]

When I flew the C-5 it was a separate school (although many guys did the AC school at the same time). In the HH-60, everyone is qualed and it takes about two hours in an afternoon to figure it out. The worst you get is maybe two misses. Now if I was ever engine out in the 60, can't guarantee I would make it.
SB

Land on the wing!

 

[GasPasser]

To answer Hawg2Hawk's question about 135 flaps at 220 KIAS, it depends on the gross weight of the tanker. At heavy weights where 0 flap maneuvering speed is going to be near 200 KIAS (the A-10 guys nearly always ask for speeds less than the dash 3 T.O. AR speeds), we'll go 20 flaps, but then we have to watch flap placard speed (230 KIAS at 20 degrees). Naturally, we prefer 0 flaps for the smoother ride and lower fuel burn. If we won't be turning at all, we'll watch the AOA gauge and make sure we're OK at 0 flaps for the desired speed.

 

[91100 100 set]

this is a fascinating thread guys...

 

[hawg2hawk]

Hawg2hawk,

I gotta disagree. You had the advantage of flying a nimble hog to a boom. When comparing refueling from a boom to a heavy (about 750000 lbs) to refueling to a hawk, the 60 is considerably easier.

SB

I think flying an HH-60 to the drogue is harder than flying an A-10 to the boom.

Would it be harder to fly a C-5 to a boom, or if suitably equipped, to a drogue?

 

[Starman]

2 Doesn't the wake from that KC135 royally screw with the smaller jets???

Actually it's harder on the larger aircraft. The forces hitting the verticle stab on a C-130 when it's behind a KC-135 have to be felt to be believed.

The really odd thing is that if you are drifting left, you need to hold in left aileron and slowly release it to return to position. If you try and put in right aileron, you'll wind up overshooting and doing the yoyo thing until the dreaded "breakaway, breakaway, breakaway" call comes. Not that I've ever heard that for real.