Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Indian Jet Plummets 7000' because co-pilot moved seat.

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
ImbracableCrunk said:
Grab some popcorn and be prepared to say WTFO!?! several times:

http://dgca.nic.in/accident/reports/incident/VT-AXJ.pdf
Click to expand...

Holy crap... This airline should not be flying in US airspace. The CA comes back to find his airplane 23 degrees nose down and you criticize him for pulling too hard and "not following RVSM procedures" but give the FO a pass because he was not trained to do an upset recovery with the auto-pilot on! No ******************** he wasn't because the first step would be to turn the AP off!
 
Not to mention the FO had 1300 TT with 900 hours in 737s. You mean they have 400 hour pilots flying 737s!
 
You mean they have 400 hour pilots flying 737s!
Click to expand...
Yes, it's routine around many parts of the world. And we've had plenty of 200-400 hour pilots hired in RJs in 2004-2008.

At least they recovered and everyone lived. Unlike our lowtime Gulfstream hero who stalled and killed everyone last year.
 
After flying for an Indian airline for two years, this sort of event doesn't even surprise me anymore. In fact I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often. In India it is normal for a 200 hour pilots to be hired on a Boeing or Airbus. Air India even has 200 hour new hires on the 777. It is also very common for a 2000 hour FO to be upgraded to Captain on a 737/Airbus 320. Also most Indian Captains fly every leg and therefore the FO never gets any hands on experience. The company that I flew for in India had a policy against any raw data flying unless a training Captain was on board. Pilot training in India is a joke. Many of the FO's I flew with told me that it was common to log hours without flying. There is no instrument training as GA airplanes aren't allowed to do "practice approaches" in India. There is no Instrument check ride. Only requirement is to log 40 hours (20 sim/20 airplane) and then DGCA issues an Instrument rating. Many of the FO's I flew with got their Multi Engine ticket in the ATR simulator when doing their type rating. Inexperienced pilots, low training standards, and corruption make for a very unsafe environment in India and I expect that there will be more incidents like this one in the future.
 
Last edited:
freight dork said:
After flying for an Indian airline for two years, this sort of event doesn't even surprise me anymore. In fact I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often. In India it is normal for a 200 hour pilots to be hired on a Boeing or Airbus. Air India even has 200 hour new hires on the 777. It is also very common for a 2000 hour FO to be upgraded to Captain on a 737/Airbus 320. Also most Indian Captains fly every leg and therefore the FO never gets any hands on experience. The company that I flew for in India had a policy against any raw data flying unless a training Captain was on board. Pilot training in India is a joke. Many of the FO's I flew with told me that it was common to log hours without flying. There is no instrument training as GA airplanes aren't allowed to do "practice approaches" in India. There is no Instrument check ride. Only requirement is to log 40 hours (20 sim/20 airplane) and then DGCA issues an Instrument rating. Many of the FO's I flew with got their Multi Engine ticket in the ATR simulator when doing their type rating. Inexperienced pilots, low training standards, and corruption make for a very unsafe environment in India and I expect that there will be more incidents like this one in the future.
Click to expand...

They're banking on technology to compensate for crap training.
 
Yes. They are that bad. And, the resent foreigners "taking their jobs." India is not the only place where this is a problem.
 
Oh come on guys! The lesson to be learned here is the stall characteristics of the 737. It's just like a Cessna!
 
Abernathy said:
Hell of a cover up. "The copilot isn't a terrorist. He's just really stupid."

On a related note, does it bother anyone else that the RJs don't have an emergency alternate method of cockpit entry?
Click to expand...


Yeah, that has bothered me for a while, too. And because it would cost $ to engineer another form of entry from the cabin, it'll never happen at certain operators.
 
In China, our FOs are ranked 1,2,3,4
we can only fly with an F3 or F4, a F1 or F2 is less than 1000 hours , just learned to fly in USA ,europe wherever.
on the airbus, they cannot touch the controls. On the Boeing, they cannot touch the controls on the 900 due to many hard landings. 1.8 Gs or higher. on 800, F4 can land... a QAR (quick access recorder) records landing every time. we can get fined for landing over 1.8Gs. you 'd have to bang it on.

The problem is these guys are super smart kids with great FMC, airplane knowledge and they fly it okay from takeoff...but the landing phase over the numbers seems to unravel. some fly okay and ultimately upgrade with 4 or 5 thousand hours... one friend had the kid just drop the nose at 30 ft, then a hard landing. as a result, memo came out F3s can only land in VFR clear and calm...
 
COOPERVANE said:
My FAVORITE part!

3.1.6 At subframe 4785( 17:53:50Z) at this time the copilot made an attempt to pull the aircraft up however it continued to loss altitude hence he again put the control column forward and aircraft went in further dive.
Click to expand...

He was just trying to finish his outside loop.
 
climbhappy said:
in china, our fos are ranked 1,2,3,4
we can only fly with an f3 or f4, a f1 or f2 is less than 1000 hours , just learned to fly in usa ,europe wherever.
On the airbus, they cannot touch the controls. On the boeing, they cannot touch the controls on the 900 due to many hard landings. 1.8 gs or higher. On 800, f4 can land... A qar (quick access recorder) records landing every time. We can get fined for landing over 1.8gs. You 'd have to bang it on.

The problem is these guys are super smart kids with great fmc, airplane knowledge and they fly it okay from takeoff...but the landing phase over the numbers seems to unravel. Some fly okay and ultimately upgrade with 4 or 5 thousand hours... One friend had the kid just drop the nose at 30 ft, then a hard landing. As a result, memo came out f3s can only land in vfr clear and calm...
Click to expand...


wtf!!!!!!
 
I thought I was pretty clear...yes, there is a system of fines but no one cares...for example, if you're not configured over the FAF, you may get fined, because it would be an unstabilized approach by definition putting aside the 1000 AGL criteria for what constitutes a stabilized approach. most guys have the green ring drawn around the FAF just to be sure...The FO are pretty sharp. you will not miss something in a critical phase of flight, they're like a bird on a wire, they'll say ,"cap tan" arm APP, "cap tan" set MAP Alt on MCP, 'cap tan" heading must be set on LOC course. Now you're getting around to it, but if it ain't done when the chinese captains they flew with at first procedurally did it, and as it is written, they freak on you.
they give new meaning to the term "standardization"
I'm just glad we don't get caned for mistake..that would suck!LOL
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top