India is DESPERATE!!!

[pilotyip]

As I have said before I have nothing against a college degree, but it is not necessary to succeed in this business. The fallback value of a degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53-year-old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumbing floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

 

[nimtz]

As I have said before I have nothing against a college degree, but it is not necessary to succeed in this business. The fallback value of a degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53-year-old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumbing floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

The bottom line is on paper most hiring managers are going to respect the individual with a 4 year degree. Without one you gonna have to make up quite a lot in life experience and charisma if you get called in for an interview. I have numerous friends that have made career changes completely unrelated to their degree and found employers far more receptive then high school friends who never finished there BA.

I'm not going to get into the semantics of why a college education is vital and important in today's world. The statistics take care of that just fine. Recommending anyone go into this business full speed ahead even if it means forsaking a degree is extraordinarily poor advice.

 

[Lear70]

Where's the dead horse emoticon when you need it?

 

[Dharmesh1231]

atp cliff...where did you get that news from....I was in India in Aug....cool place to be. It is pretty accurate...I didn't know that they needed that many pilots in 3 yrs though. I have an A320 type, but only 1000hrs TT. Trying to get a bus flying gig there...I saw a whole buch of Indian kids here at a San Diego flight school...they will be getting their commercial pilot Lic....and even before the ink dries on it they will have jobs flying right seat on a big jet....unbelievable....what's the airline industry coming to....

 

[ableone]

Does it look like you will be able to get a 320 gig or not? How were you recieved?

 

[mrvmo]

Actually, the Indian airline industry kinda sounds a lot like ours here in the USA back in the 60's when guys where getting hired into jets at majors with just a commercial..............supply and demand.

 

[Mach8Forest]

Actually, the Indian airline industry kinda sounds a lot like ours here in the USA back in the 60's when guys where getting hired into jets at majors with just a commercial..............supply and demand.

Believe it or not TWA hired guys with zero time back then.
Mach8

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Pretty much crap for anyone with any real experience.

If you are low-time, it might be a good option. Otherwise, not so much.

Go over to www.pprune.com and do a search. There's pages and pages on all the different companies hiring over there right now.

Choose carefully, however. Once into ex-pat flying, it's very hard to get back stateside into anything equivalent, and the contracts over there are seldom long-term, except for the notable Cathay-type operators.

Your information is bad. We have lost 15 possibly as many as 70 777 captains who were hired by Jet Airways as 777-300 captains. Pay is 240K can be based anywhere in Europe with positive space passes to and from with good time off etc.

Possible US bases soon.

 

[bravodude]

You, sir, are VERY, VERY lucky, and I don't think you realize HOW lucky you are.

I also did the same things you did, although I also have the 4-year degree, but in reverse order, and just last year got hired on at AirTran after 15 years in aviation (not including training, that's just working after college).

Most years I averaged about $50,000. NOT an impressive salary in ANY professional industry.

Maybe you should look around and realize MOST of us don't get the golden road as you have, despite how hard we try to get ahead. Yes, I said golden road.

You chose certain employment options when others might not have. NO ONE knows how they're going to work out, but you do your research and make your best bet and HOPE it's the right thing. In some cases, it works beautifully. In other cases, it doesn't.

I'm not saying you didn't work hard to get where you are, but LUCK is more at work here than anything else.

So good for you. But to tell other people they're not trying hard enough is assumptive and arrogant.

i never said people don't try hard enough and i certainly don't consider myself lucky. i sepnt 3 years as a cfi makeing nothing, i flew jumpers for 5 bucks a load and the first regional i worked for paid 14,000 a year. so don't tell me im arogant. it took 13 uears to get to where i am at and it is only because i knew what i wanted. i knew i needed pic jet when i was at pdt and all the rgionals were getting rj's, i was just smart enough not by a car, house, boat etc and shack up with a FA while at a regional. I am no diff. then anybody here. evrybody complains about low pay crappy working conditions etc. at the regionals, the regionals are there for one thing and one thing only to give you experiance to move on. when i was at pdt we tried to fight, i picked up no ot, did nothing extra and it still didn't help so i realized what role the regional airline plays and just delat with it. Its not that hard trust me. everyone i started with got a job ata major, legacy, whatever you wan't to call it. If you wan't it baddly it will happen. if you complain about it you will get noware nothing.

 

[Dharmesh1231]

Does it look like you will be able to get a 320 gig or not? How were you recieved?

Hopefully I'll be able to get a bus flying gig there....I was received well...they like to see people with experience as most of the Indian kids only have 250 hrs and a wet comm lic and as soon as they are put into the sim on the 320/73, they can't pass training....coz it's too complex for them...from a C-152 to a 73...where do you work right now...I see you have a bus type.

 

[Lear70]

i never said people don't try hard enough and i certainly don't consider myself lucky. i sepnt 3 years as a cfi makeing nothing, i flew jumpers for 5 bucks a load and the first regional i worked for paid 14,000 a year. so don't tell me im arogant. it took 13 uears to get to where i am at and it is only because i knew what i wanted. i knew i needed pic jet when i was at pdt and all the rgionals were getting rj's, i was just smart enough not by a car, house, boat etc and shack up with a FA while at a regional. I am no diff. then anybody here. evrybody complains about low pay crappy working conditions etc. at the regionals, the regionals are there for one thing and one thing only to give you experiance to move on. when i was at pdt we tried to fight, i picked up no ot, did nothing extra and it still didn't help so i realized what role the regional airline plays and just delat with it. Its not that hard trust me. everyone i started with got a job ata major, legacy, whatever you wan't to call it. If you wan't it baddly it will happen. if you complain about it you will get noware nothing.

Thanks for making my point.

Your intentions may be as noble as you say, but your delivery comes across EXCESSIVELY conceited for the THOUSANDS of pilots who have been busting their a*s for DECADES and still haven't gotten where you are.

I could care less about being in your shoes; I've been here a year and love it. Providing our contract comes up with the requisite $$$, I have no intentions of going anywhere else.

But if you really think it's your skill and determination that have gotten you this far with absolutely NO luck or help from contacts/references, then you really are hopelessly out of touch with reality.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Dude,
He was probably comparing the industry to pre-9/11. We, FDX/SWA/UPS are on the top of the world now because of default only. You probably don't remember, but few wanted to work at the above three before 9/11.

I sought the financial stability and greater growth projections that the cargo side offered in the early 90's. Many pilot applicants to UAL (as an example) utterly FAILED to do any financial research whatsoever and falsely assumed because UAL was hiring, they must be healthy. The ESOP was a result of Wall St. DECLINING to invest money into their operation. Turning to their employees for what was essentially a bailout was their last resort before massive layoffs and major downsizing. A cursory financial review of UAL in the early 90's revealed a financial nightmare. Many correctly attributed their mid 90's turnaround to a favorable business climate in which "dot-commers" were happily willing to pay outrageous $ multi-thousand walk-up fares to close deals on short notice versus UAL's incredibly insightful (ESOP) management plan. Their "Achilles Heel" was their dependance on these high-priced business fares for their financial survival.

I CHOSE UPS over UAL due to their business model and financial strength. Comparing contracts alone is, IMO, NOT doing your homework if a long, financially stable career is your objective.

YMMV,

BBB

 

[Falconjet]

They learn how to use TP over there and maybe more folks would be willing to relocate to work there.

I wouldn't shake any body's hand in that country!

FJ

 

[bravodude]

Thanks for making my point.

Your intentions may be as noble as you say, but your delivery comes across EXCESSIVELY conceited for the THOUSANDS of pilots who have been busting their a*s for DECADES and still haven't gotten where you are.

I could care less about being in your shoes; I've been here a year and love it. Providing our contract comes up with the requisite $$$, I have no intentions of going anywhere else.

But if you really think it's your skill and determination that have gotten you this far with absolutely NO luck or help from contacts/references, then you really are hopelessly out of touch with reality.

I hope your contract does come up but the guy whi is going to be in class with me that has been at airtran for 3 years and just got the upgrade but still paid for his type to jump ship doesnt seem to agree with you.( that was an intentioned smart as$ comment). Luck, what does luck have to do with it. internal rec`s didn't get me an interview at SW nor did it help me make 8,000 dollars a year while i was a cfi. Did luck help me get here nooooo. if it was luck i would have been that guy that got hired at the first regional he applied too and i would have have been that guy that got hired at the first major they interviewd at. ( i was shot down at Airtran and jetblue- pre 9/11 had i been hired at either one i would be sitting pretty now) so no i don't consider myslef lucky. If you want to blame your succes on luck be my guest! Have a nice life.

 

[Lear70]

I hope your contract does come up but the guy whi is going to be in class with me that has been at airtran for 3 years and just got the upgrade but still paid for his type to jump ship doesnt seem to agree with you.( that was an intentioned smart as$ comment). Luck, what does luck have to do with it. internal rec`s didn't get me an interview at SW nor did it help me make 8,000 dollars a year while i was a cfi. Did luck help me get here nooooo. if it was luck i would have been that guy that got hired at the first regional he applied too and i would have have been that guy that got hired at the first major they interviewd at. ( i was shot down at Airtran and jetblue- pre 9/11 had i been hired at either one i would be sitting pretty now) so no i don't consider myslef lucky. If you want to blame your succes on luck be my guest! Have a nice life.

Again, thanks for making my point.

Hope your self-delusion takes you through the rest of your career unscathed. Because luck has nothing to do with it, right?

 

[bravodude]

Again, thanks for making my point.

Hope your self-delusion takes you through the rest of your career unscathed. Because luck has nothing to do with it, right?

you are verry welcome. i wonder why you still work because if you are so lucky you should win the lottery. I guess everyone is lucky acording to you including evry ceo that made it to the top, every doctor is ;ucky for finishing medical school. You know what live your life thinking you are lucky and never beeing proud of your own grit and determination. Have a nice life!

 

[pilotyip]

Skill and desire

Luck and timing have more to do with your career than skill and desire. Remember the Fedex Captain who got hired two years out of ERAU with 2500 hours, no TJ PIC, was that luck or skill?

 

[Dizel8]

Your information is bad. We have lost 15 possibly as many as 70 777 captains who were hired by Jet Airways as 777-300 captains. Pay is 240K can be based anywhere in Europe with positive space passes to and from with good time off etc.

Possible US bases soon.

Not that I doubt you, but according to their website, they have no 777's!

Although I stand corrected:

SEATTLE, Oct. 04, 2005 -- The Boeing Company today confirmed the completion of an order agreement with Mumbai-based Jet Airways for 10 777-300ERs. Jet Airways announced its intention to order the commercial airplanes, valued at $2.53 billion at list prices, at the Paris Air Show in June. Deliveries will begin in early 2007

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Not that I doubt you, but according to their website, they have no 777's!

Although I stand corrected:

SEATTLE, Oct. 04, 2005 -- The Boeing Company today confirmed the completion of an order agreement with Mumbai-based Jet Airways for 10 777-300ERs. Jet Airways announced its intention to order the commercial airplanes, valued at $2.53 billion at list prices, at the Paris Air Show in June. Deliveries will begin in early 2007

A few former AA and DAL also on contract now in Japan, there are a few contracts out there that are pretty good and getting better as the international market is booming, but do your homework about the contract agency you choose, there are some new ones that are out there that are not too good (The company might be a good one but choose a contract agency that will give you the logistical support you need)
Good pay and benefits, but like Lear70 said. It will be very hard to get off the Gold Handcuffs and return to a job States Side.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity, and I must be prepared to MAKE MY OWN LUCK - Raymond Barry

Believe it or not, you do have control over the direction of your career and life my friend. If you stand there waiting for things to happen, nothing will happen.

AZT

I agree.