Independence Air to cease all operations in Jan.

[Publishers]

This whole thing is not a simple situtation and one should be reluctant to beat up on management or employees. They were being forced into a deal here that they found unacceptable and maybe unsustainable. That is there right and we will never know what would have happened had the compromised with UAL. The prospects for UAL were certainly not rosey and their UAL future was questionable to.
They thought the time was right to give it an effort to go on their own. Some things worked against them, like fuel. Predatory pricing by the competition also was problably expected but to what degree.
Now that it has not worked out, here come the naysayers. People that say they were decieved by management not coming forth and telling them sooner or not remaining upbeat in face of failure just do not understand the real world. You do your best until the end.
For people on this board to decry deceit and to say they made a bad decision probably do not know the facts. Either way, there was no assurance the other way to go would have been much better in the end.

 

[sbn340mech]

ATTENTION ALL REMAINING INDY EMPLOYEES
Hey my heart goes out to you, that said, whatever you do don't hold on to the Titanic too long. I went through this already once this year, C8. BAIL NOW and don't look back!

Hey taildragon, did you go to IDE after Chi Ex shut down? And its happening all over again?

 

[logolight]

Riding in the waves of the others here, what happened with the UAL/ACA contract was United wanted controll over ACA's fleet which meant that at any given time United saw fit, they could immediately park airplanes and start them up again at their leisure. Now how do you properly staff pilots for that? The other and more significant problem was the contract proposal from United would have allowed them to completely dissolve ACA over the next 5 years of the contract. Why would anyone sign their own death warrent? So the only thing left for ACA was to try to out on it's own. It wasn't the best time to do it but it the only thing they felt that was left to do.

 

[Propblast]

This is your opinion. Is it fact based?

Fact is, in all probablility, on Jan 08, UAL and UAX will be flying, INDY will not. Is this not enough to understand that, even in hindsight, staying with UAL was the better choice.

The "proudest day of my life" Indy blue juice drinkers have the belief of....



When actually venturing out on your own was your own death sentence.

Supporting the employees, rejecting the Tom and Kerry Show.

UAL wanted ACA to sign a contract that allowed them to continue to siphon off the UEX flying to mesa, etc. That is a fact.

ACA was the highest cost regional in the system at the time. That is a fact.

After ACA left they went after AWAC - the next hightest cost regional. That is a fact.

You ought to be able to use rational deduction to see where things would have gone if we had stayed with UAL. Just because UAL and UEX are around today doesn't mean ACA would have been in the system. That is not a logical deduction - you need to deal with the facts a little.

BTW, don't throw all that blue juice drinker stuff out - it shows an infantile approach and weakens your arguement.

-PB

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

After ACA left they went after AWAC - the next hightest cost regional. That is a fact. -PB

On Jan 08, AWAC will be flying. That is a fact.

AWAC is hring. That is a fact.

FLYI is/has/will furlough. Fact.

Hindsight is 20/20 for some, but still not for all. This is a fact!

 

[Kenny]

On Jan 08, AWAC will be flying. That is a fact.

AWAC is hring. That is a fact.

FLYI is/has/will furlough. Fact.

Hindsight is 20/20 for some, but still not for all. This is a fact!

But the point you missed Rez is that, depending on how you look at it, AWAC got extremely lucky. There are those up at Galactic HQ who will tell you, had the USAir deal not happened, the 3 Amigo's were within days of shutting down the company.

We are entering a completly new era of aviation business here in the US. It's not a case of survival of the best but simply the luckiest or cheapest. Unfortunately ACA/Indy was neither.

 

[RP170]

But the point you missed Rez is that, depending on how you look at it, AWAC got extremely lucky. There are those up at Galactic HQ who will tell you, had the USAir deal not happened, the 3 Amigo's were within days of shutting down the company.

We are entering a completly new era of aviation business here in the US. It's not a case of survival of the best but simply the luckiest or cheapest. Unfortunately ACA/Indy was neither.

Not to mention that AWAC gave US Airways $200 million to stay in business. That's not too impressive.

 

[Kenny]

"Not too impressive" Why? because they used the profits they'd made to ensure their survival? Isn't that how business works. Are you really telling me that other airlines faced with being cut off at the knees by Yonited, wouldn't have done the same thing?

Whether you cut your profit margins or pay to play the end result is still the same. We kept flying and we've so far kept our pay rates and more importantly our contract and work rules.

You can scorn all you want but we still have a contract and work rules that most others would f#cking kill for.

 

[Turtlesfly]

No, it's not too late - FlyI can buy 69 jets' routes' worth from CAL!!!!

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

Regardless, UAL wanted ACA out, period. Then they wanted Air Whisky out. Meanwhile they signed different deals with the other carriers. They're allowing Mesa to move 30 of the 60 RJs (50 seaters) out of US Airways system and into the UAL system. Plus they're giving Mesa more flying. And they're allowing Republic to fly the E170's. Yes, Mesa tried a hostile takeover with $550 million and $11 a share during a hostile take over, but wtf? ACA wasn't wanted by UAL anymore. So, it wouldnt have matere whether we would have stayed or gone out on our own. We could have made it on our own providing it was managed correctly, and it wasn't. All too often I kept seeing the pilot and FA groups stepping up to the plate to prevent more SNAFUs and put fires out, and what thanks did we get? Constant bashing from the little fat moron in the puzzle palace who bashed us and still puts out hotliines like nothing is going to happen. 866-465-9309. Plus he hasn't mentioned anything about Deadskins football this year. I thought we were the official airline of the Washington Deadskins?

 

[Frosty328]

I do miss the good ole' Boston days. I wish all the pilots and flight attendents the best. TOGA 2 TEN!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Many seem to know what exactly what UAL had planned for ACA. Fact is, none of really do. We were only told what UAL and/or ACA wanted the public to know. Like myself, don't pretend to think you really know the real deal. None of us do.

It seems the people in the "Pro Indy camp despite its failure" are determined to believe it was the right move. Not sure why. Your kid doesn't care how the bills are paid. If you need to have Indy pride, then so be it. I can't explain that to my family.

"I can't pay the house note this month, but I got Indy Pride!!"

"Hows that Indy Pride dinner taste kids?... lap it up!"



Let's not devaite from the facts.

AWAC will be hiring and flying on Jan 08.