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In-house or "decert" at Flex

Vinny

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Posted below is the latest from the presumptive leader of the in-house union movement at Flexjet. If anyone has been operating under the assumption that Frank, after having won a representation election, had any intention of actually running a union to represent the pilots, his recent post from oscrewlounge.com should reveal his true intentions. He makes no bones about the fact that this is a “decert”, not an effort to organize an in-house union. He would, instead, like to see us reduced to being at-will employees again.

Next time you see Frank, look him in the eye and ask him if he's OK with the individual derision and infamy he will most assuredly face throughout our industry if he is successful in placing our entire pilot group out in the cold without a union to protect them from one of the most union hating management teams in history. As we know, aviation is a small world.


F Woelke

(@charger24)
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07/03/2018 9:13 pm

This is whole decert isn't a vote of confidence in Me or even Kenn Ricci, it's a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the failed IBT1108. The Union earned this decert by not doing the job they've been payed hard earned dues money to do. THEY have taken money out of checks and yes "food off of pilots tables" for years and delivered nothing in return.

Do you really think 3 guys with a website payed for with beer money have brought the IBT to the point of decert in just a few months? They did this to themselves. The HUNDREDS of pilots who have sent in cards aren't voting for Pedro or Frank or even Kenn, they're voting against a failed Union that hasn't delivered on years of broken promises.

The IBT1108 earned and owns this decert.
 

Dirty Squirrel

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I never presumed that anyone volunteered to represent us if the Teamsters were voted out. The decert movement has always been, as I understood, an effort to cause another vote. This could be history in the making. The Teamsters narrowly won last time. Will they narrowly lose this time?
 

Imissmypilot

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I never presumed that anyone volunteered to represent us if the Teamsters were voted out. The decert movement has always been, as I understood, an effort to cause another vote. This could be history in the making. The Teamsters narrowly won last time. Will they narrowly lose this time?

Then you would be in the minority. I have spoken to many who turned in cards who thought we were voting Teamsters or in-house union. It never occurred to them this decert drive could put us back to at will employment.

Vinny, as for Frank complaining about money stolen from him in the form of dues, I thought he never paid dues and encouraged the many to follow suit. So either he lied then or he's lying now. What a class act.

Fact is if you never paid a red cent of dues you have NO RIGHT to say whether or not you are happy with the job the Teamsters are doing. IMHO, based on the grounds they are claiming for the drive the Teamsters should petition Judge Gwinn to keep the vote to MIGS as of Jan 31. That would be the intellectually honest approach to Frank's protestations.
 

Bjtdrvr

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Another important fact. ALPA never gave the IBT the time of day when they were forming the 1108 chapter. They have no interest in representing 600 poorly paid pilots!!!! It is an out right fabrication that they would even consider us. If the union is voted out the ONLY possiblity for it to come back would be through an in house union. That would be extremely detrimental. There is no backing. We would then be back to being AT WILL employees with no representation. How about the 4 am wake up calls again after 10 hours off duty? With you being expected to answer your phone? I pay close to 4000 dollars in insurance to cover about 20000 dollars worth of cars. I am fine with paying 1500 -2000 to protect a 130000+ job!
 

Honorstudent

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As I understand it Woelke is upset at himself for choosing to go to the G650. Sources say he is very disappointed that he didn’t choose Domestic Red Label 350 over ILC Red Label. Boo Hoo, Cry me an Fn river!!
 

SPT

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Wow! Another site that y’all can’t get your facts straight. Another site that you badmouth other people behind another name instead of to their face. Another sight that you spread your lies and discontent towards your fellow pilots.
Just to give you the information that you seem to be worried about. Woelke was the first pilot for the domestic 350 red label. He chose to go to the 650 to be on the ground floor of a new program and the future of this company. Not that you need to or want to know the truth but before you spew your lies and misinformation get the facts.
 

TexasChallenger

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Wow! Another site that y’all can’t get your facts straight. Another site that you badmouth other people behind another name instead of to their face. Another sight that you spread your lies and discontent towards your fellow pilots.
Just to give you the information that you seem to be worried about. Woelke was the first pilot for the domestic 350 red label. He chose to go to the 650 to be on the ground floor of a new program and the future of this company. Not that you need to or want to know the truth but before you spew your lies and misinformation get the facts.

No way this is the real SPT (South Park Timmy). He's never put together one sentence, let alone several, where the punctuation and grammar weren't all jacked up. But none the less, I'm settling in for with some popcorn for this to unfold...
 

Imissmypilot

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No way this is the real SPT (South Park Timmy). He's never put together one sentence, let alone several, where the punctuation and grammar weren't all jacked up. But none the less, I'm settling in for with some popcorn for this to unfold...

Oh no it's probably him, but his "editor" tried to keep it readable while still keeping it "tim" hence the punctuation clean up. He has a hard time deciphering the difference between site and sight, your and you're etc... so either the imposter has paid very special attention or he's here now.

Other ways I'm sure it's him:

He has a hard time with reading comprehension. He does not seem to understand the rumor is not if or why FW went to the 650. The rumor is completely regarding whether or not he is happy there. And word is he is not and has complained to several people about it. Now SPT if you'd like to have a back and forth about the why there seems to be a pattern of IRL pilots not finding the pasture as green as expected we can do that, but something tells me you are the type of guy who would argue whether or not the sun shines at noon on a clear day so it's futile as long as you're comprehension remains lackluster.

Another reason I'm betting it's him is SPT has a hard time figuring out is cold hard truth, while often unpleasant, does not equal defamation, belittling, lies, vitriol or the other such accusations lobbed against statements meant to spark a little but of reality into the discussion. He, and others like him, like to bring the accusations of bad tenor and tone into the conversation are often the ones at the heart of the issue and actually responsible for the had tone and tenor. There are known social engineering / manipulation techniques people like SPT are employing in their posts here and elsewhere. Are you going tell me Tim can figure that out? Gimme a break. It has professional union busting help written all over it. Just 3 guys spending beer money, huh? We saw it with RH and now we are seeing the techniques employed here. Interesting.

Another trick used? The attacks on anonymity. They know when the protections people feel they need to speak out are stripped away the discussion ends. It's easy when you know you'll be rewarded for your speech to identify with it but not so easy when you know you'll be punished. The union busters have probrably advised them to attack anonymity because it's the best route to victory for them.

This isn't about truth for them. It's about hurt feelings. I think the one porn lounge poster had it right: Frank is pissed he didn't get kudos for appearing in the video. Tim is upset people challenged on Yammer and made fun of his folksy Appalachian skooling. Rick is upset the union pointed out his lying ways. I'm not trying to be mean so while I could go on with my interpretation for why each of the relatively few vehemently anti union fighters has made this a personal battle I think I've proven the point.

I've said it before but I'll say it again: the one thing I really appreciate about our union leadership is they've never lied even when it could help them. They've never fought back when others made it personal instead only choosing battles of merit. Each one of them has had a target on their back one way or another and they've stood tall meanwhile the anti unions gang gets targets of a different type: red label seats and special treatment.

Sorry SPT, if you were looking to gain a little support by coming here for your little Zuckerberg-esque drama, you didn't get my vote.
 

Honorstudent

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Ground floor of something special alright, how was your first 60 days in a row on the road or whatever you have been bragging about there on the G650 SPT? How is that even remotely legal? You da man SPT!!
 

Imissmypilot

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Ground floor of something special alright, how was your first 60 days in a row on the road or whatever you have been bragging about there on the G650 SPT? How is that even remotely legal? You da man SPT!!

Are you serious? This from the same guy who brags he is taking care of a wife with "mental problems" (his words not mine) and a young child?

60 straight days on the road?

It's okay, since Kenn likes to buy awards maybe he'll throw in some spare change so SPT can get family man of the year from the local daffodil society.
 

Honorstudent

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Not sure what you are referring to there SPT with regard to “ backwoods country f@(k” but what is concerning is the deep seated hatred you obviously have for your fellow colleagues that support there democratically elected Pilot Union. What about the three fundamental principles? Wow!!
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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SPT. I see youre back and you didn’t learn from last time. Just face it, you are not going to get an award for stupidity. As a matter of fact, you should crack open your books and study because you are not getting a free pass on your next checkride.
 

Imissmypilot

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***************
How flattering it is that you know more about me then I do. Didn’t know you were a psychiatrist also. I’m impressed. Let me know how much I owe you for the couch time. If I’m such a backwoods country fu** as y’all suggest, why would you ever be so worried about me.
A lot of what y’all say does confirm your love for the teamster, all the lies and deception. I’m glad y’all are not concerned about possibly being voted out and only concerned with causing more dissension between pilots.
Cant wait to continue this wonderful, professional relationship with y’all for years to come. How exciting.

With a smile
***************

For those of y'all that missed ole SPT's rant before he erased it, see

That's the thing about these decert guys - they love censorship. They love removing their own posts when they know they sound like friggin lunatics and they love to make sure no more dissenting voices can be heard on the porn lounge. I've talked to more than a few guys whose posts have never seen the light of day on Frank's "open" forum.

By the way SPT, no one worried about you. You just make it too easy to not get a few laughs out of an otherwise dreary work environment.

My partner reminded me of a very important fact today. IRL is the way Kenn envisions OneSky to operate sans-union. So if one of company's very own SFO FoK IGM superstars can't stand it, what hope does a regular Joe have?
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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I’m one of those guys that have 0 posts on that fake website. Some people like to live in their sheltered little world , but reality eventually catches up with them. 2N sold them a shiny new airplane and a false promise with schedules and pay that didn’t quite work out. The fallacy of the Red Label lifestyle was supposed to hold together until after the vote but his house of cards is starting to collapse.
 

Bjtdrvr

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The one thing that I found interesting in RH post is how much he blames the union for what he calls a lousy contract and how poorly the union negotiating team did. A couple of thoughts, first it happened during one of the worst economic downturn in the history of the US. Second it was a first contract negotiating with basically the same management that is place right now just a different mouthpiece. THIRD he just has accused management of lying and cheating!! Why do I say that? Because management had to show the union lawyers and negotiating team their books! If there was more money to be had I am sure they would have gone for it. Now IF KR is saying that there was then there must be a second set of books that was presented. However in my opinion I just believe that RH has no clue.
 

Imissmypilot

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The one thing that I found interesting in RH post is how much he blames the union for what he calls a lousy contract and how poorly the union negotiating team did. A couple of thoughts, first it happened during one of the worst economic downturn in the history of the US. Second it was a first contract negotiating with basically the same management that is place right now just a different mouthpiece. THIRD he just has accused management of lying and cheating!! Why do I say that? Because management had to show the union lawyers and negotiating team their books! If there was more money to be had I am sure they would have gone for it. Now IF KR is saying that there was then there must be a second set of books that was presented. However in my opinion I just believe that RH has no clue.

For a guy married to a lawyer you'd think he would be getting "counseled" to keep his mouth shut. For a guy who has already committed perjury you'd think he would be getting "counseled" to lay low. I'm not saying this to be trite. I am seriously concerned for him. I just don't see the longterm upside to him putting himself out on the limb like this. I get the feeling CGF is using him for dirty work and then when it is expedient for them to disavow him and his actions he will be up a river with no paddle.

As much as I detest his actions and those of the decert crew, no one wants to see old friends take the fall.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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There is no hiding it any longer. Phil and Frank are not pretending to want to represent the pilots with an in-house union any longer. Now that Frank has his G-650 slot, he is too busy to represent anyone but himself.
 

Imissmypilot

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There is no hiding it any longer. Phil and Frank are not pretending to want to represent the pilots with an in-house union any longer. Now that Frank has his G-650 slot, he is too busy to represent anyone but himself.

The problem is no one wants to believe it. This company is full of "positive" thinkers; they take the side they are more culturally inclined to take and then assume, without any research, that side has their back and will do everything the way they would if they were running it.

So that cat might be out of the bag to the point it was hit by a mack truck but unless informed pilots go out there and let your crews know, most will assume Frank'n'Beans will "do the right thing." I actually heard someone said that this past week: "don't worry when it comes down to it Frank will do the right thing and start an in house." That statement is so stupid on so many levels couldn't even give advice to the guy having to listen to it all week.
 
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