Impending 'pilot shortage' rumor is false

[HA25]

forgot the best part...

we don't have to fly overly antiquated DC-9's around with 10-15 MEL's hanging of the logbook..

Again, we're hardly a top end job.. just making the contrast to what you call a "good job"

 

[pilotyip]

Again VT70 you show how little you know of our operation. In an operational fleet of 16 airplanes right now there is a total of three DMIs spread amongst those airplanes, this is typical of our operation. If fact in my ten year here I do not recall flying any airplane with more than one DMI. It is not you that is fine. I know you are much further up the cool index than the bottom feeders who make a living at YIP. It is kind of you to share your wisdom with us. I didn’t mention the rave reviews we got from Ford Motor and GM executive charter, including the highest score ever given a charter operator inspected by Ford Motor Company, cause you probably wouldn’t understand. Again you know nothing about this operation. Thanks for the opportunity to make a plug.

 

[HA25]

Again VT70 you show how little you know of our operation. In an operational fleet of 16 airplanes right now there is a total of three DMIs spread amongst those airplanes, this is typical of our operation. If fact in my ten year here I do not recall flying any airplane with more than one DMI.

A former pilot of yours that I know well (and who will not be named) told me otherwise.. so let's just agree to disagree..

In the end, the fact that you're having to change your hiring guide lines and new hire pay tells it all..

 

[pilotyip]

Correct me if I Wrong

VT Thanks for coming back to the thread; I can always count on you to get a plug in for our airline. People are going to start thinking you are my straight man. It started about pilot shortage before we had to hear about how bad I am and how good you are. So now we go back to the shortage. In the end we have to change, it is because everyone else one on the entry level is making changes. The redefinition of competitive minimums just allows more opportunities to identify pilots who can meet our standards. This allows selectivity and we still get to make a cull to ensure quality. For instance our class starting on 5-15, 4 pilots Ave. 2200, ME 1500, 2 135 back ground. 1 121, former 135 check airman. We are not really changing our pay only going back to pay as it was in 2001, before 9-11. Again you have no idea of who we are. BTW There is a good chance the guy you "know well" (not in a biblical sense I'm sure) did not work here recently. I have never seen multi DMI's. Prehaps I am wrong, would any of the USA Jet pilots care to chime in with thier experiences with DMI's at USA Jet?

 

[737 Pylt]

USA Jet pilots care to chime in with thier experiences with DMI's at USA Jet?

USA Jet??????
OMG, I'm gonna be sick!uke:

737

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

737Pylt:
I like USA Jet. I like it better than TSA, and better than the USAF (When I was active duty, pilots didn't get to fly hardly at all, and we couldn't keep flying-we were forced into a staff job-it's changed now, and the USAF pays TONS more than they used to.).

I would prefer Delta, which is why I'm trying to get into Delta now, along with some other great organizations. As you know, Delta's not perfect. They used to boast they had never furloughed any pilots, ever.

Life doesn't always go how you plan.

cliff
GRB

PS-I have flown with 2 DMIs for sure-3? I can't remember specifically flying with 3-maybe...and that's on the Falcons, which are harder to keep running in top form thant the DC-9s.

 

[pilotyip]

Thank you 737, for your recognition of how far you are up the "cool" scale from a bottom feeder only shows how little you know what goes on at our level. May you never have to eat in the same restaurant as a bottom feeder, or heavens for bid stay in the same hotel? I mean after all you are a DAL pilot.

 

[737 Pylt]

Thank you 737, for your recognition of how far you are up the "cool" scale from a bottom feeder only shows how little you know what goes on at our level. May you never have to eat in the same restaurant as a bottom feeder, or heavens for bid stay in the same hotel? I mean after all you are a DAL pilot.

Hey pilotyip:
I know 3 guys that went to usajet because they couldn't go anywhere else. 2 of them were EAL scabs! It just proves to me the kind of outfit you work for!

737

 

[§kyye Candy]

interview policy

No, they're having to do that because they interview EVERYBODY who meets their mins (a great policy by the way) and then end up only hiring about 15% of those they interview.

really... so 5,000+ TT, 3,500 121 turbine & LCA status doesn't meet their mins. these days? Because I know at least one applicant with those quals who hasn't heard a peep from them regarding an interview.

 

[pilotyip]

737, but DAL stills hires guys who worked with and were trained by those ex EAL guys, I guess it dosen't rub off. BTW our former CP was the ALPA DCA MEC for EAL, run the strike at DCA, he had no problem with those employees. But then again you are DAL guy who doesn't have to deal with the reality of the rest of the world, go be happy.

 

[XJTAv8r]

I agree. Age 65s timing is dreadful and must be stopped.

If you want to help stop the House and Senate FAA Authorization bills from being corrupted by fast-track Age 65 language here's a good place to start:

Here are the Senate target audience:

Subcommittee on
Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies

Democratic Subcommittee Members:
·Senator Patty Murray (Chairman) (WA)
·Senator Robert C. Byrd (WV)
·Senator Barbara Mikulski (MD)
·Senator Herb Kohl (WI)
·Senator Richard Durbin (IL)
·Senator Byron Dorgan (ND)
·Senator Patrick Leahy (VT)
·Senator Tom Harkin (IA)
·Senator Dianne Feinstein (CA)
·Senator Tim Johnson (SD)
·Senator Frank Lautenberg (NJ)
Republican Subcommittee Members:
·Senator Christopher Bond (Ranking Member) (MO)
·Senator Richard Shelby (AL)
·Senator Arlen Specter (PA)
·Senator Robert Bennett (UT)
·Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (TX)
·Senator Sam Brownback (KS)
·Senator Ted Stevens (AK)
·Senator Pete Domenici (NM)
·Senator Lamar Alexander (TN)
·Senator Wayne Allard (CO)


Note that Bond, Hutchison, Brownback, Stevens, Alexander, and Allard (all GOP) are co-sponsors of S. 65, so you’re wasting your time with them. None of the Dems are co-sponsors of S. 65.


The FAA Authorization Bill will be in markup in appropriations subcommittee. This is where the text of S. 65 will be inserted, if it is inserted into the appropriations bill.

Here's additional motivation to fight back:

This week's Blitz was one of the most productive we have ever had. Thanks to the efforts of over 40 pilots who attended no fewer than 70 meetings, we now have over 100 bipartisan cosponsors on the House and Senate bills. Most importantly, we got the good news that the legislative effort has really gone wheels up this week. On Thursday, the last day of the Blitz, the Senate Commerce Committee introduced the FAA Authorization Bill which includes the complete S.65 language included in Section 706. Earlier this week Aviation Subcommittee Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) and ranking member Trent Lott (R-MS) signed off on the language being in the FAA bill (The Aviation Investment and Modernization Act of 2007). We expect this bill to begin to move very quickly. The Senate Commerce Committee will markup and vote on the bill the week of the May 14. A lot of hard work by our bill champions, SWAPA and others made this possible.



Make no mistake; this effort could still be sidetracked. It is critical that that we proceed very carefully. It is important to express our thanks and our complete satisfaction to our champions, and all Members of Congress that this provision has been included as a part of the Senate FAA Authorization bill and to urge the House to include the same language in its draft of the bill. Many staff members-- including those who have been opposed to change in the past, have commented about the impact of our lobbying efforts-- and the importance of keeping the pressure on S.65 and H.R. 1125; Boots on the ground = results. We will follow-up with a plan for our next blitz shortly, but it probably would be a good idea for some folks to plan be here the week of the 14th when the committee marks up the bill to make the rounds in support of the effort.

This is from the SWAPA lobbyist, time to start calling to get this bs sidetracked

 

[737 Pylt]

737, but DAL stills hires guys who worked with and were trained by those ex EAL guys,

REALLY? Which ones were scabs?? Or are you just talking out of your ass, AGAIN?

I guess it dosen't rub off. BTW our former CP was the ALPA DCA MEC for EAL, run the strike at DCA, he had no problem with those employees.

That's between him and his scabs! Just remember the scabs you're flying with today are the same ones who are sleeping with your wife while you're on a trip! It sounds to me that YOU'RE the one who doesn't have to deal with the reality of the rest of the world sport!

But then again you are DAL guy who doesn't have to deal with the reality of the rest of the world, go be happy.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but its ok, you don't have to be a turd all your life!

737

 

[fam62c]

There will never be a pilot shortage for the best employers. The pilots that are available will gravitate to SWA, UPS, FEDex and some of the better legacy and national carriers; they will have no shortage of applicants. I do believe though, and we are already seeing it, that the regionals are going to run out of pilot applicants for entry level positions. Charter operators and vacation airlines will see it as well. The regionals will either need to shrink at some point or find a way to find pilots. The regional industry built itself on the premise that there would always be an unlimited supply of entry-level pilots willing to work for whatever they were willing to pay and willing to put up with anything as long as they got to fly a plane. They are in for a nasty surprise as they begin to fight over an ever-dwindling supply of newbies.

 

[AV80R]

There will never be a pilot shortage for the best employers. The pilots that are available will gravitate to SWA, UPS, FEDex and some of the better legacy and national carriers; they will have no shortage of applicants.

- Agree!

The regionals will either need to shrink at some point or find a way to find pilots.

- Yes, it's called raising the pathetic pay and increasing the few benefits at regionals!

 

[pilotyip]

737 remember the scabs won CAL in 1984, the ALPA brother hood now represents them. BTW are you calling me a turd? That would not be nice, we are supposed to be nice here, I heard DAL pilots were all gentlemen

 

[stlflyguy]

The regional industry built itself on the premise that there would always be an unlimited supply of entry-level pilots willing to work for whatever they were willing to pay and willing to put up with anything as long as they got to fly a plane. They are in for a nasty surprise as they begin to fight over an ever-dwindling supply of newbies.

The same companies that would enter into Pay For Training programs and charge anywhere between $7k to $12k for it. Turnabout is more than fair, don't you think?

stlflyguy

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yeah, it would be great to see the new PFT programs.

The regional calls you, and offers to pay your room and board, and all of your training costs until you get your comm/multi/inst ratings, and then you get full pay day 1 to start indoc/systems as an FO with the airline.

cliff
GRB

 

[HA25]

I just had a wonderful experience with an email I got from Mesa pilot recruiting.. Apparently I checked off the box for them on my AirlineApps.com app so they sent me an email to "update" my addendum so as to get an interview.

I replied with "not if you were the last airline on earth hiring, and I was about to be homeless with no other job skill than flying an RJ"

That felt good!

 

[Wiggums]

I hope down the road that someone for HR at Mesa gets a job where you want to work and reads remembers you from that email. Aviation is a small world, there is no reason to treat others like that.

 

[fly4unclesam]

I am currently a AF pilot and will retire in Feb of 2012. I know that is almost 5 years out but any thoughts on hiring forcasts for that timeframe based on retirements, planned growth, etc?

 

[Lear70]

I don't know about that, Wiggums... I've had the same experience years ago with a regional.

I was flying a King Air 90 single-pilot as a CA in a 135 job and Pinnacle Airlines (then Express Airlines I) called me for an interview. At the time, you had to pay $12,500 for your training, and the phone call went something like this:

"Let me get this straight. You want ME to pay YOU $12,500 to come to work there as an F/O in an airplane that is roughly the same size and engine type that I'm already flying as a CAPTAIN and take a $6,000 a year pay cut to do so?"

Answer: "Ummm... yeah."

Me: "Well, feel free to give me a call when you drop the pay for training and up the entry pay about $10k a year, otherwise, not a chance."

I was hired years later as a street CA at the same airline by the same HR recruiter and yes, she remembered me and our conversation.

It's not about treating someone badly, it's about making a statement that your services are worth more than that compensation level and that it's INSULTING for them to even OFFER that low of pay (below poverty level).

You don't have to be rude, but you can make your point. They'll get the message.

 

[Lear70]

I am currently a AF pilot and will retire in Feb of 2012. I know that is almost 5 years out but any thoughts on hiring forcasts for that timeframe based on retirements, planned growth, etc?

Sure,,, and I'll pass along some winning lotto numbers, too.

Seriously, that's about the time we'll be firmly on the next downswing in aviation hiring. We're about 1 year into the upswing that, historically, lasts about 3 years, then hiring at majors will pretty much come to a halt and, if they're doing poorly financially, they'll start furloughing people a year or two later (right about the time you go terminal).

Southwest and other LCC's will probably continue to hire steadily (they're pretty good at slow, continued growth while the majors can't figure out how to staff besides hiring thousands, then furloughing thousands).

Regionals... why would you bother with your experience?

Truth is, no one knows 5 years out what the regional landscape will look like. Alter ego carrier spinoffs, IPO's, and whipsaws keep the regionals constantly in a state of flux. No way to predict that.

I'd seriously work on those references to FDX, SWA, and UPS over the next several years and shoot for those carriers.

Good luck!

 

[AV80R]

I don't know about that, Wiggums... I've had the same experience years ago with a regional...It's not about treating someone badly, it's about making a statement that your services are worth more than that compensation level and that it's INSULTING for them to even OFFER that low of pay (below poverty level).You don't have to be rude, but you can make your point. They'll get the message.

Very well said! Be professional but also show you're proud to be a pilot!

 

[HA25]

...there is no reason to treat others like that.

Oh yes there is!