I'm not a proponent of PFT

[Coffee]

A slightly old advertisement reads: regional seeking applicants for the position of first officer, must have ATP, 1500 Hrs TT, and 500 ME.

So how is this not then PFT. If in order to apply you had to buy a private pilot, an instrument, a commercial, and a multiengine certificate. But then to gain time required for this ad the majority then buy at least two instructional certificates and more than likely had to buy the first 100 Hrs of multiengine to qualify to teach or fly it for someone else. How much does that add up to? If each certificate was only
3K and the ME aircraft could be rented at 100Hr. The min price an applicant would have to pay: 3K*6+10000 = 11,800. But that would not include the additional hours or the ATP, so to adjust just for the costs of a generic ATP add another 1000. 12,800. But that would not be the only costs one would have to consider, how many have that sitting around? So more than likely an educational loan was taken out maybe at the toon of 5-8% and if the payments only lasted 3 years that would be around another 1000 so the figure would be closer to 13,800. Now for the minute consider the money you did not earn while you waited for a student or pushed freight when a similar individual was working himself up the corporate latter, but that makes me to melancholy to continue.

Placing that aside, isn’t this whole market set up to require pilots to pay and to do that constantly until with a carrier, but even these days that is not always true. The thing that really bogels my mind is that without a pilot the whole thing falls apart. So why are we the slaves instead of the kings?

 

[banned username 2]

Well obviously you are looking for flame bait...

Did you pay for college? Then using your "view" that would be PFT, you paid for your college education (training)... A Doctor and Lawyer would then be considered PFT too because they also paid for their "training"... You are really stretching it here...

PFT is when an employer requires you to pay for aircraft specific training in order to secure employment with that employer. Plain and simple explaination.

PFT is bad news.

 

[SDdriver]

COFFEE,

How many times do we have to tell you. Paying for your ratings is required to even be able to fly for hire. OK that is a requirment just like the above poster said, attorney, doctor, etc...

Paying a company to get employed is PFT..Can you just not figure it out? When you are qualified by having the basic ratings..then you go get a job that your current experiece level requires. 300hrs go fly traffic, instruct, tow banners, when you get 1200hrs, go fly freight, checks so on, get 2500hrs go get a regional job, corporate, charter...

PLease just do a search on PFT and get educated on the subject and also please don't start a flame thread.

Paying for private, inst, comm, multi, is required by all of us.

Paying XYZ company 10 or 15k so they will train you on their plane and then give you a job is PFT!! What good is that training going to do you if you leave them? None it is company specific and PFT.

Get it?

Sd

 

[LR25]

I dont have a CFI or MEI, what is my excuse for my first job?

I dont have any student loans, and Im not rich either.

Dude, get a grip, it will be all right.

 

[SDdriver]

I 2nd LR25,

I don't have a CFI MEI either, I made it and never PFT'd..why can't anyone else..?

No excuse to PFT, it is people that are impatient and don't want to earn their way. No respect for people like that!!

 

[T-Gates]

Ahhh.... what a refreshing change! PFT Flame Bait!

Geez.....will it ever end!?

--03M

 

[dmspilot00]

I don't think it's flamebait. Read the whole thing next time.

I propose that in order to avoid confusion the name is changed to PFJ = Pay For Job.

 

[bobbysamd]

Oh, well, I guess I'll bite, too . . .

Coffee's ad resonates from twelve-thirteen years ago. Those were standard regional quals back then.

Earning ratings to acquire those quals is not paying-for-training. Your Commercial and CFI are real credentials that are yours and can be marketed universally. Compare them to P-F-T, which requires you to remit money to an "employer" for your training as a condition of employment, and the training in question being applicable only to that company.

Everyone has to go to school and/or receive training to learn his/her trade. Earning your initial ratings and perhaps paying an examiner and renting an airplane for your ATP is schooling and training. Everyone has to pay tuition for his/her schooling and training. You cannot compare schooling and training to P-F-T.

 

[T-Gates]

I don't think it's flamebait. Read the whole thing next time.

I propose that in order to avoid confusion the name is changed to PFJ = Pay For Job.

I did read the whole thing. Considering I've seen this question posed at least 20 different times. I'm gonna put it in a flamebait category.

And I think Pay-For-Job would be a misnomer, because you are not garunteed a job unless you pass the ride. You are just Paying for the Training.

--03M

 

[jergar999]

I am fairly slow, it took me a long time to understand the implications of paying for a job, so here is a basic story that details the whole principle. Bob just graduated from college, with a degree in aeronautical science. He goes back to his hometown, to XYZ airport and starts instructing. There are three main operators based at XYZ airport. One is a huge freight company that operates large aircraft, and pays appropriately. They usually hire pilots from one of the two other smaller freight companies on the field. Those companies operate small jets and turboprops, and require 2 pilots. Both companies operate on demand and bid on scheduled freight runs. We'll call them company A and B to keep it simple. Bob is tired of instructing, and like so many instructors yearns for the big iron days and the pay. Company A decides that if Bob pays them a certain amount, they will check him out in the airplane and he can fly as much as duty times will allow. The company is still collecting money for the flight from the freight or passengers. Bob pays for the turbine time (1 pilot job down, why pay a first officer if they'll pay you?). Some of Bob's friends hear about his plan, and decide to do the same, as they want a shot at the big time too. (several more pilot jobs down) Once the paid pilots are gone and everyone at company A is either a captain or paying, company A can underbid company B. Company B has two options now. They can shut the doors (more jobs gone) or charge pilots to fly right seat to remain competitive (more jobs gone). They go with the latter. Slowly over a period of years some retirements happen at the huge freight operator, and some promotions happen. This leaves several openings. All the local PFT folks have been salivating over this job, the company knows it, and will pay as low as the cheapest guy will work for. (1 job, not as good as it used to be) If companies A and B both had 3 aircraft each staffed with 3 crews to provide uninterrupted service, we started out with 36 paid pilot positions, and possibly after a few years a great job with the larger company. In this scenario, we end up with 18 paid positions at the 2 smaller companies, and a lesser job on the top end. This is certainly an oversimplified example, all taking place within a small and sealed environment, but its not unlike the real aviation world, which is smaller than a lot of people think. If a company needs two pilots for an aircraft, they should pay two. Once someone has paid for that job the company will probably never pay someone to take the seat, and a job is lost. One person might get ahead in his/her career, but he/she closes doors on the way up and makes things worse for everyone else.