I'm not a proponent of PFT

[SDdriver]

JerGar999,

Absoulute applause!!!! VERY GOOD EXPLAINATION OF PFT!!!

If Coffee doesn't get it and anyone else that is considering PFT doesn't get it after reading your post, then there is no hope for them. I hope they all see the domino effect that you describe in your post. It expands at an exponential rate in the industry. It would be a great industry if there was not people out there that would sell their souls, or cut someone else's throat to get a flying job.

Please all, consider your industry as a whole, not just your personal career, you will find it pays off for you and everyone else in the end. Great explaination of what I mean, in the post above.

Sd

 

[LR25]

Think of it, if everyone would stop PFTing for about 6 months, where would the industry be?

How many people would be put back to work, regardless of the equipment, jets, twins, whatever, that deserve to be back, that have children to feed.

Not saying that the 300 hour wonder doesnt deserve it, but if they PFTed, they dont.

Can we switch this to an RJDC thread now?

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T 101

Originally posted by jergar999
If a company needs two pilots for an aircraft, they should pay two. Once someone has paid for that job the company will probably never pay someone to take the seat, and a job is lost. One person might get ahead in his/her career, but he/she closes doors on the way up and makes things worse for everyone else.

Excellent post about P-F-T.

Don't forget about the potential of fraud. P-F-T usually demands a big deposit up front. You have no assurances that your instructors are acting in your best interests. They are beholden to the company and not you, and may not treat you ethically. You might be washed out of training unreasonably and unfairly, i.e. conned, and never get your money back. There is at least one Florida P-F-T banner-tower who is proof positive of that.

The long and short of it that despite all anti-P-F-T education we dispense there are those who won't pay and those who will. All we can do is to keep reaching out to the uninformed.

 

[Timebuilder]

Hear, hear!!!

 

[SDdriver]

Coffee,

I am very curious why you start these threads about PFT and get many responses, but you never post any reply's?

If you are just starting FLAME, then just don't post. I hope you have read this thread very well, because you have some really intelligent people that have posted VERY GOOD explanations to why PFT is a very bad thing.

To all of you young/old guys or gals just starting in your career in aviation, I hope you also read this thread well and join the many other pilots out there that are trying to combat PFT. If we all stand up, especially you new guys, and force companies to pay us, there will be no PFT and you will see the level of pay increase to a respectable level. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution! Demand to be paid, and if they won't, walk away with your dignity and respect intact and be patient, you will get a job, you just have to work hard, work your way up from the bottom, and by all means don't take shortcuts, it will only hurt you in the end. Remember anything worthwhile in this life isn't easy. Good luck to you all, and by all means, demand to be PAID!

SD

 

[46Driver]

Just to throw fuel on the fire on a boring day.... I've asked about this at several of the squadrons I've been in and all you get is a blank look. Nobody understands what is unethical about it - the general consensus is you do what you have to do and if somebody isn't willing to pay the price, that's Darwin at work. Maybe the military bubbas have a different perspective coming from a ruthlessly competitive flight school environment to the exact opposite in a seniority based system.

 

[bobbysamd]

Just to throw fuel on the fire on a boring day.... I've asked about this at several of the squadrons I've been in and all you get is a blank look. Nobody understands what is unethical about it - the general consensus is you do what you have to do and if somebody isn't willing to pay the price, that's Darwin at work.

Situational ethics. I love it!!!!

 

[SDdriver]

Just out of curiosity did you read any of the above post? When someone PFT's they take the job away from many who are qualified. The company is now not only making money from flying people or frieght, they are now making money off of their pilots.

Did you pay the military to give you a job flying helos? NO you didn't. You signed up for a JOB JOB JOB..they PAY YOU..get it?

My god I can't believe why people can't understand this. When you pay a comany for training then they figure out that they don't have to pay you hardley anything to fly for them. Why do you think the pay sucks so bad in this industry, because companies don't have to pay pilots, they have gutless wonders paying them.

PLEASE read the post by jergar999 above. It explains it perfectly. Now after reading that, do you really think it is an ethical buisness practice and something that is productive for the industry.

I can just picture it, Daddy Daddy, there is a company that wants to hire me to fly a jet, can you believe it, I will get to wear a uniform and a hat and be a real pilot, can I just get a check for 15,000 dollars so they will hire me to make 18,000 my first year? Gosh I will only be making 3000 dollars my first year, but hey I will be flying right. GIVE ME A F**KING BREAK!!!!!!!!!!

SD

 

[46Driver]

Don't shoot the messenger - I'm just relaying an observation from a few different squadrons....

 

[SDdriver]

46Driver,

I wasn't ragging on you, just do me a favor, go tell your buddies to go and look in the dictionary at the definition of a job, it doesn't say anywhere in there anything about paying the employer.

Or better yet, copy jergar999 post word for word and take it to them and have them read it. Tell them to imagine getting out of the military and having 3 or 4 or 5 thousand hours in jets or turboprops, and going to apply for a job flying a corp jet or a freight jet, and having the chief pilot tell you sorry we are going to hire this 19yr old kid with 300 hours cause he is going to pay us 15k, think you would be pissed? All the hard work you have put in over your career to get to the point where you are at, earning it every step of the way, just to have some little punk with a fat check book take the job from you? Think you would be pissed? He hasn't earned one hour in his whole life, he has just cut a check for everything, and he gets it over you? YEAH PISSES ME OFF!! BIG TIME! I have never had that happen to me, but I have to friends of mine that are GREAT pilots and have really busted their ass hauling freight, towing banners, flying traffic, and living in their car or a closet the whole time, and who gets the jobs? Kids who's daddy's write a check for everything they ever do so they can have what they want when they want it. Look, my family was able to pay my way, but I never asked them to do it, I WORKED for what I have, and I was paid for my time in planes. Sorry if I am seeming pissed, but I am, This subject just really gets my blood boiling.

Well I have to go, time to go clock in at McDonalds.

Sd