• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

I'm Here Doing It...at Avantair

Paradoxus

Sith Sorcerer
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
5,376
Total Time
Lv. 50
I hate to say it, but your stance on this issue discounts, denigrates, disdains, demonizes and demeans any contrary opinion. Your conclusion is stated as self-evident, leaving no room for argument.

Thus, my previous post.

Self-evident is not sufficient justification to place something beyond reproach.
 

Praetorian

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Posts
577
Total Time
aeons
What makes some air carrier managers loathe pilots? Could some pilots' propensity to jump ship be a factor? Just wondering.

Were you abused as a child? What I'm hearing you say is, "Mommy beat me and tied me to a chair, so I ran away. I'm such a bad person."
 

Praetorian

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Posts
577
Total Time
aeons
Perhaps seniority actually HURTS pilots more than it helps....???

Yes, I think you're right in so many ways well beyond the scope of this discussion. What's your plan to abolish/exterminate seniority lists from aviation?
 

Paradoxus

Sith Sorcerer
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
5,376
Total Time
Lv. 50
Yes, I think you're right in so many ways well beyond the scope of this discussion. What's your plan to abolish/exterminate seniority lists from aviation?

A replacement via bullsh*t favoritism, most likely. In this way, the sewer-spawned, over-swelled ranks of management may be more effortlessly replenished with legions more incompetent.
 

rettofly

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2003
Posts
8,915
Total Time
10K +
Were you abused as a child? What I'm hearing you say is, "Mommy beat me and tied me to a chair, so I ran away. I'm such a bad person."

Your logic escapes me.

Just to put your mind at ease: I was not abused as a child, nor was I abused as an adult (I never put up with any attempts). Oh.. I'm not a bad person, unless being able to see the logic of reasonable training contracts makes me one. If so.. guilty as charged.
 

rettofly

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2003
Posts
8,915
Total Time
10K +
A replacement via bullsh*t favoritism, most likely. In this way, the sewer-spawned, over-swelled ranks of management may be more effortlessly replenished with legions more incompetent.

Speaking of seniority... is it justifiable for a prospective employer to ask a successful applicant who happens to be on furlough to resign his / her seniority number as a condition of employment?
 

Paradoxus

Sith Sorcerer
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
5,376
Total Time
Lv. 50
Speaking of seniority... is it justifiable for a prospective employer to ask a successful applicant who happens to be on furlough to resign his / her seniority number as a condition of employment?

Of course not.

Addendum: I wouldn't comply with such an audacious request, however, unless the job was hella-special.
 

glasspilot

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Posts
1,622
Total Time
9K'ish
Of course not.

Addendum: I wouldn't comply with such an audacious request, however, unless the job was hella-special.


Well, when I got to Avantair they were exactly what I was looking for. A young company with a TON of potential. I wanted to get in on the ground floor of a company that was going to "explode". I knew a guy who was hired as number 40 at Jet Blue. At the time we all said, "JetWho?" and wished him luck at his little project. We sort of snickered at the time too.

Well, I learned a great lesson there! Now he is senior as God at a great airline. I ate a bunch of crow there...but I learned. Don't chase that "great job". I turned down an interview at NetJets for that very reason. I went to a job fair and stood in all the lines I wanted to and at the end I saw the NetJet table and figured "why not"? Well I was given an interview date and respectfully turned it down as at the time they had 2,600 pilots. I just couldn't imagine being 2,601 of 2,604. They'd have to buy 500 planes just so I could upgrade!

Anyway, I wanted a small little up and comming company that I could get in on the ground floor. I found EXACTLY what I was looking for at Avantair. They ran a plane that sipped gas and nobody had ever heard of them. I interviewed and liked what I saw. Then came what I didn't like...the training contract.

In the end I weighed that against all that I liked and decided to bite the bullet and do it. If I was pissed after 3 months and had to leave I would have sucked it up and honored the contract that signed. As it were, I liked this job more than any I've had so it was not a problem.

I make more money than I've ever made and I really enjoy the flying that I do. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's okay. I feel like I'm a part of the solutions to fix what needs fixing.

I understand why they have a training contract. I do not support it. But with all that's going on in the world I figure I can live with that. I'm happy and very glad I signed that stupid document that I didn't agree with. That was 5+ years ago. Moot point now...

I guess this job, for me, has been "hella-special".

Fly safe,

gp
 
Last edited:

Paradoxus

Sith Sorcerer
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
5,376
Total Time
Lv. 50
Well, when I got to Avantair they were exactly what I was looking for. A young company with a TON of potential. I wanted to get in on the ground floor of a company that was going to "explode". I knew a guy who was hired as number 40 at Jet Blue. At the time we all said, "JetWho?" and wished him luck at his little project. We sort of snickered at the time too.

Well, I learned a great lesson there! Now he is senior as God at a great airline. I ate a bunch of crow there...but I learned. Don't chase that "great job". I turned down an interview at NetJets for that very reason. I went to a job fair and stood in all the lines I wanted to and at the end I saw the NetJet table and figured "why not"? Well I was given an interview date and respectfully turned it down as at the time they had 2,600 pilots. I just couldn't imagine being 2,601 of 2,604. They'd have to buy 500 planes just so I could upgrade!

Anyway, I wanted a small little up and comming company that I could get in on the ground floor. I found EXACTLY what I was looking for at Avantair. They ran a plane that sipped gas and nobody had ever heard of them. I interviewed and liked what I saw. Then came what I didn't like...the training contract.

In the end I weighed that against all that I liked and decided to bite the bullet and do it. If I was pissed after 3 months and had to leave I would have sucked it up and honored the contract that signed. As it were, I liked this job more than any I've had so it was not a problem.

I make more money than I've ever made and I really enjoy the flying that I do. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's okay. I feel like I'm a part of the solutions to fix what needs fixing.

I understand why they have a training contract. I do not support it. But with all that's going on in the world I figure I can live with that. I'm happy and very glad I signed that stupid document that I didn't agree with. That was 5+ years ago. Moot point now...

I guess this job, for me, has been "hella-special".

Fly safe,

gp


Well, I certainly can't fault you. Then again, this was about a more generic failing by management universally, not an attack on a pilot group.
 

rettofly

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2003
Posts
8,915
Total Time
10K +
Of course not.

Addendum: I wouldn't comply with such an audacious request, however, unless the job was hella-special.

In the vernacular of Praetorius: Were you abused as a pilot?

A management that requires a training contract is not inherently evil or incompetent.

A management that does not require a training contract is not inherently good or competent.
 

Ultrabandit

New member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Posts
1
Well, when I got to Avantair they were exactly what I was looking for. A young company with a TON of potential. I wanted to get in on the ground floor of a company that was going to "explode". I knew a guy who was hired as number 40 at Jet Blue. At the time we all said, "JetWho?" and wished him luck at his little project. We sort of snickered at the time too.

Well, I learned a great lesson there! Now he is senior as God at a great airline. I ate a bunch of crow there...but I learned. Don't chase that "great job". I turned down an interview at NetJets for that very reason. I went to a job fair and stood in all the lines I wanted to and at the end I saw the NetJet table and figured "why not"? Well I was given an interview date and respectfully turned it down as at the time they had 2,600 pilots. I just couldn't imagine being 2,601 of 2,604. They'd have to buy 500 planes just so I could upgrade!

Anyway, I wanted a small little up and comming company that I could get in on the ground floor. I found EXACTLY what I was looking for at Avantair. They ran a plane that sipped gas and nobody had ever heard of them. I interviewed and liked what I saw. Then came what I didn't like...the training contract.

In the end I weighed that against all that I liked and decided to bite the bullet and do it. If I was pissed after 3 months and had to leave I would have sucked it up and honored the contract that signed. As it were, I liked this job more than any I've had so it was not a problem.

I make more money than I've ever made and I really enjoy the flying that I do. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's okay. I feel like I'm a part of the solutions to fix what needs fixing.

I understand why they have a training contract. I do not support it. But with all that's going on in the world I figure I can live with that. I'm happy and very glad I signed that stupid document that I didn't agree with. That was 5+ years ago. Moot point now...

I guess this job, for me, has been "hella-special".

Fly safe,

gp

GP,

You are not being truthful!.. You weren't looking for a place like Avantair to get in on the ground floor or a new company, with a different kinda of aircraft. After your last company went out business, Avantair was the only place that hired you. I remember when you first came to Avantair. You had a real bad attitude, cocky, and arrogant because you flew a Barbie Jet at a 121 operation and thought you knew it all. Guys didn't care for you much at Avantair and I don't know if that has changed. But I doubt that. What about all of the issues that you have had at Avantair, you never seem to mention any of that in all of your post. I won't disclose them but you know what I am talking about. I have read alot of you post here on FI, not saying a thing...but it was time to. Avantair is not perfect, that is an understatement, it is Far from perfect and will never get better under the current management.Avantair is not not all that you protest it to be. You have a Nazi as a DO, who has his own interpretation of the GOM to make guys do things that not in the best interest of the Pilots and a greedy CEO who just took another pay raise and wanted to force 14/14 day schedule in order to try to save money. I'm glad you all did not let that happen..Cudos to you all I know that they are having major issues with maint, finances and the FAA, now tell me I'm lying. Just be truthful. Have you ever asked yourself, Have things really gotten better over the last 5 years at Avantair OR Have I just become immune to this Crap? As long as the industry is in the state that it is in, there will always be very qualified guys going after any Jobs, with the word "AIR" in them, even those with Air Conditioning. So getting good qualified guys at Avantair will not be an issue until the industry turns around. After that Avantair will become just a steeping stone flying job until something better comes along,
I know there will be a lot of comment on this post from you and the other guys at Avantair. I am not attacking you guys at Avantair, there are some great guys there trying to make it work and I commend you all on the Job that you are doing, but under the current management it will never change for the better for you guys, I know first hand!
Peace Out!
 

glasspilot

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Posts
1,622
Total Time
9K'ish
Oh look, btdi is back.

Nice first post. I guess I'm honored I rates high in your book to deserve a "first post".
 

rajflyboy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Posts
1,797
Total Time
17500
I ran into an Avantair crew the other day. They were very unhappy about how things were going lately. Company had these guys on several hours of "Airport Appreciation" and the captain even said that they were staying in a Super 8 hotel that night. They said things were going down hill fast.

Any truth to this or were these guys just disgruntled people?
 

Lear70

JAFFO
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Posts
7,487
Total Time
4abeer
Moderator reviewed:

Members who come out swinging on their first post are subject to review and removal at the sole discretion of the board moderators and webmaster.

While the IP addresses for the afore-mentioned poster do not match, a word of warning. Similar writing styles, intimate knowledge of inner workings of the company, etc might give us reason to believe you might not be a new member, rather a member with a new user name after being previously-banned. As such, repeated inflammatory postings will be approached as if you are an experienced member, rather than a NooB.

Post accordingly, aka, play nice please.

Thanks,

/mod
 

AftCG182

RIP Avantair
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Posts
507
Total Time
10K+
I ran into an Avantair crew the other day. They were very unhappy about how things were going lately. Company had these guys on several hours of "Airport Appreciation" and the captain even said that they were staying in a Super 8 hotel that night. They said things were going down hill fast.

Any truth to this or were these guys just disgruntled people?

Change in general makes some people unhappy. The current changes stem from posturing maneuvers that will help us endure this recession a little better. Possibly even to prepare for the dreaded "double dip" recession, should one occur. Generally speaking, the economy seems to be improving. Hopefully the recovery is firmly underway. Let's also hope those tax cuts get at least a temporary extension.

Increased "airport appreciation": Accurate. Not the norm, but we do find ourselves on standby to cover maintainence problems elsewhere in the system more than we used to. Makes good business sense to me.

Super 8 hotels: Not accurate, at least on a regular/repeated basis. Every once in a while we overnight in East Bunglef-ck, where the nearest Hilton or Holiday Inn property is 45 minutes away. Maybe, on that night, Super 8 was the only reasonable lodging available.

Things are going downhill fast: Not accurate. Again, change (along with the uncertainty about what will result from change) makes some people uneasy/unhappy. Some grumbling is reasonable, and should be expected.

Hope this addresses your points.
 
Last edited:

AftCG182

RIP Avantair
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Posts
507
Total Time
10K+
GP,

You are not being truthful!.. You weren't looking for a place like Avantair to get in on the ground floor or a new company, with a different kinda of aircraft. After your last company went out business, Avantair was the only place that hired you. I remember when you first came to Avantair. You had a real bad attitude, cocky, and arrogant because you flew a Barbie Jet at a 121 operation and thought you knew it all. Guys didn't care for you much at Avantair and I don't know if that has changed. But I doubt that. What about all of the issues that you have had at Avantair, you never seem to mention any of that in all of your post. I won't disclose them but you know what I am talking about. I have read alot of you post here on FI, not saying a thing...but it was time to. Avantair is not perfect, that is an understatement, it is Far from perfect and will never get better under the current management.Avantair is not not all that you protest it to be. You have a Nazi as a DO, who has his own interpretation of the GOM to make guys do things that not in the best interest of the Pilots and a greedy CEO who just took another pay raise and wanted to force 14/14 day schedule in order to try to save money. I'm glad you all did not let that happen..Cudos to you all I know that they are having major issues with maint, finances and the FAA, now tell me I'm lying. Just be truthful. Have you ever asked yourself, Have things really gotten better over the last 5 years at Avantair OR Have I just become immune to this Crap? As long as the industry is in the state that it is in, there will always be very qualified guys going after any Jobs, with the word "AIR" in them, even those with Air Conditioning. So getting good qualified guys at Avantair will not be an issue until the industry turns around. After that Avantair will become just a steeping stone flying job until something better comes along,
I know there will be a lot of comment on this post from you and the other guys at Avantair. I am not attacking you guys at Avantair, there are some great guys there trying to make it work and I commend you all on the Job that you are doing, but under the current management it will never change for the better for you guys, I know first hand!
Peace Out!

Welcome back, BTDI. Since you decided to call out glasspilot, I'll let him take up this discussion.
 

rajflyboy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Posts
1,797
Total Time
17500
Change in general makes some people unhappy. The current changes stem from posturing maneuvers that will help us endure this recession a little better. Possibly even to prepare for the dreaded "double dip" recession, should one occur. Generally speaking, the economy seems to be improving. Hopefully the recovery is firmly underway. Let's also hope those tax cuts get at least a temporary extension.

Increased "airport appreciation": Accurate. Not the norm, but we do find ourselves on standby to cover maintainence problems elsewhere in the system more than we used to. Makes good business sense to me.

Super 8 hotels: Not accurate, at least on a regular/repeated basis. Every once in a while we overnight in East Bunglef-ck, where the nearest Hilton or Holiday Inn property is 45 minutes away. Maybe, on that night, Super 8 was the only reasonable lodging available.

Things are going downhill fast: Not accurate. Again, change (along with the uncertainty about what will result from change) makes some people uneasy/unhappy. Some grumbling is reasonable, and should be expected.

Hope this addresses your points.

Thanks for the insight
 

Praetorian

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Posts
577
Total Time
aeons
I hear the Avantair guys got screwed on their schedule. 7&7 unilaterally changed by mangt. to an 8&6 schedule. I also hear there is an organizing campaign underway. I guess we now know why B19 is back at work on here. I perdect the FUD will now be flowing. I wonder which union-busting law firm Avantair will hire?

Popcorn anyone?
 

gunfyter

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Posts
3,781
Total Time
11000+
I hear the Avantair guys got screwed on their schedule. 7&7 unilaterally changed by mangt. to an 8&6 schedule. I also hear there is an organizing campaign underway. I guess we now know why B19 is back at work on here. I perdect the FUD will now be flowing. I wonder which union-busting law firm Avantair will hire?

Popcorn anyone?
Perceptive....;)
 
Top