I'm done. (NWA/DAL)

[dragon]

How many Delta pilots voted for LOA19? I believe it was somewhere around 90 percent. In 25 years, I will remember how the Delta pilots screwed us all by negotiating a contract without us.

25 years? No wonder red book/green book lasted so long. Get a grip. Control what you can and deal with what you can't; holding long term grudges will solve nothing.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Ya but Loa 19 didn't have anything to do with How the SLI would be solved. That is just stupid to bring up Loa 19 and the SLI process we are in right now in the same sentence. Once again you(NWA Pilots by voting 87%) made your own bed live with it.

I guess I don't understand what you are saying. The only thing I remember us voting for was the JPWA. It passed to get us a joint contract because Delta signed its own contract without NWA. The SLI process is in the JPWA, but that is not why the majority of our pilots voted for it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Either way we are both bound by it.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

25 years? No wonder red book/green book lasted so long. Get a grip. Control what you can and deal with what you can't; holding long term grudges will solve nothing.

Yeah, but holding grudges (and fences) is what the nw mec is all about. 26 arbitrations in 22 years. All so their bafoon mec can say, "well, sorry guys, but we gave it our best. Its not our fault."

 

[Schwanker]

Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.

NWA has: 60+ 747s/A330s?
DAL has: 10 777s?

Straight DOH would be a windfall for DAL. C&R is definitely required.

 

[dragon]

NWA has: 60+ 747s/A330s?
DAL has: 10 777s?

Straight DOH would be a windfall for DAL. C&R is definitely required.

I'm curious why the NWA argument only recognizes DAL's 777s as widebody or premium widebody or "super" premium widebody flying. Why do the 767ERs or 767-400s not count?

Looking at the A330 variants they are comparable in seating etc and according to sources the A330 was designed to be competition to the 767.

 

[Schwanker]

I'm curious why the NWA argument only recognizes DAL's 777s as widebody or premium widebody or "super" premium widebody flying. Why do the 767ERs or 767-400s not count?

Looking at the A330 variants they are comparable in seating etc and according to sources the A330 was designed to be competition to the 767.

75/76 are set up as one class. The jets I listed are the largest aircraft (top 10% of the combined fleet and have MTGW > 500K). They are also the aircraft which goes most senior on both lists. More importantly, DALPA and ACL like to twist things and play with numbers. I'm just returning the favor.

Schwanker

edit: It seems to be working as it's getting under ACL's skin. He has a real case of tunnel vision/kool-aide syndrome.

 

[Flybet3]

Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.

Sounds to me like you're about to be sh** out of luck.

 

[Superpilot92]

Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.

Just out of curiosity where did you get that? Are you saying 400 numbers based on comparing DALs proposal and NWA DOH assumed proposal? If so its not accurate to say 400 numbers if your using DALs proposed list as a starting point because thats nothing more than a proposal and wouldnt be an accurate reflection. We can safely say that all of our career expectations are going to be changed in one way or the other regardless of the outcome. Hopefully the combination will in the end, work out for all of us equally.

Point being you cant use DALPAs proposal as a starting point because both proposals are nothing more than wet dreams from each party. Each sides proposals are assuming best case scenario for each pilot group. Thus it likely cant get any better and will likely end up somewhere in the middle. Only time will tell.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What I used was something before DAL proposal came out. It is based upon seats avail from each airline, and what those seats are. I plugged in NWA's list when I got it. In essence I have my own excel spread sheet.
DAL's proposal is very close to what ratio by equipment is.
It will not be one or the other, I have stated that. We have already made progress on that. It will probably be near where the negotiations are(rumored--I would not want to get accused of stating something I do not have 100% knowledge of). From what I hear they think it will still be a negotiated list.
We shall see.

 

[Superpilot92]

What I used was something before DAL proposal came out. It is based upon seats avail from each airline, and what those seats are. I plugged in NWA's list when I got it. In essence I have my own excel spread sheet.
DAL's proposal is very close to what ratio by equipment is.
It will not be one or the other, I have stated that. We have already made progress on that. It will probably be near where the negotiations are(rumored--I would not want to get accused of stating something I do not have 100% knowledge of). From what I hear they think it will still be a negotiated list.
We shall see.

Fair enough, both sides are going for whats best for their associate pilot groups and that was to be expected. Its going to fall somewhere between both proposals and we will all have to live with the results. We'll see

 

[XTW]

DOH with tall fences is the way to go. Nobody can bitch about losing longevity and nobody can bitch about a windfall in regard to equipment.

 

[jetflier]

Yeah, but holding grudges (and fences) is what the nw mec is all about. 26 arbitrations in 22 years. All so their bafoon mec can say, "well, sorry guys, but we gave it our best. Its not our fault."

NWA ALPA has never had a lawsuit against the airline or ALPA as a result of a merger. DAL ALPA has had merger related lawsuits ,...from each of its previous "successful" mergers. Lawsuits that were all related to DAL ALPA's method of seniority intergration.

I don't think that the arbitrators believe that previous DAL mergers were all that great, when the NWA/ Republic merger never had a lawsuit against it.

 

[EMBpilot]

... Your new manning rules (2 Capts over 12 hour flights and 2 FOs) will allow plenty of upgrades on 744s..

They didn't have that?? It was 1 CA and 3 FO's, really? I thought it was one of the classy airlines..

 

[DTW320]

They didn't have that?? It was 1 CA and 3 FO's, really? I thought it was one of the classy airlines..

Yes....they did. For years and years....before bankruptcy. It was lost during the BK contract negotiations. Do we need to start a list of what both sides lost vs kept as they went through the bankruptcy process, or should we make blanket statements about "class" based on a single contractual item?