Illegal charter

[JediNein]

As Avbug pointed out, it is not a charter if you land at the point of departure with in 25 miles. I think we could call your flight a "Discovery Flight".......

There may have been some instruction going on, but probably not flight-related. It sounds more like a "scenic" flight as the hooker was most certainly looking out the window; one "member" tends to look a lot like another no matter who is holding it. Thus the pilot would be subject to a DOT-approved drug testing program and would need a letter of authorization from the local FSDO.

 

[Abernathy]

Everyone, including the local FSDO in the area where I used to teach, knows about a particular 134.5 operator. Used to be out of an airport where half the pilots flew with revoked licenses or had been violated in the past. The FSDO knows, but doesn't have the balls to do anything because...well, I don't exactly know why. They're a useless FSDO but I won't name it here. They're useless because I've had friends who were student pilots get killed from flying out of that airport because of the antics of the local pilots there, including the rentals with forged documents. FSDO still won't look into it, although they obviously know. Everyone else knows.

So I don't believe that they're taking it THAT seriously.

 

[CitationUltra]

Everyone, including the local FSDO in the area where I used to teach, knows about a particular 134.5 operator. Used to be out of an airport where half the pilots flew with revoked licenses or had been violated in the past. The FSDO knows, but doesn't have the balls to do anything because...well, I don't exactly know why. They're a useless FSDO but I won't name it here. They're useless because I've had friends who were student pilots get killed from flying out of that airport because of the antics of the local pilots there, including the rentals with forged documents. FSDO still won't look into it, although they obviously know. Everyone else knows.

So I don't believe that they're taking it THAT seriously.

Each FSDO is individually owned and operated. I know several areas with the same problem, and no action after many years and many incidents. It just depends on which geographic area you are in.

 

[JAFI]

Everyone has to answer to someone. If you have proof of what you say and are getting no satisfaction:

A link to customer feedback that is addressed and recorded continuously:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/qms/


Any of these you’re repetitive? Give them your information. This is a hot topic right now.

http://transportation.house.gov/about.aspx

Or you can just sit back and bitch like the masses……

 

[Princedietrich]

The perception that the FAA knows about these 134-and-a-half operators and refuses to do anything about is a misconception that comes from two sources.

First, despite their jack-booted reputation, the FAA can't just kick the door down and turn the place inside out. They're not cops, so therefore they can't enforce no-knock warrants and shoot the mayor's dog in the process. The system they have to follow, which is a system that is so mired in beaurocratic nonsense that it's nigh impossible to follow and completely impossible to change, dictates that in order to bust an illegal charter operator they have to quite literally catch them in the act. This means they have to be there at the airport and at the FBO when the plane lands, and they have to ramp it right there and then to find the fingers in the cookie jar. They can't do a thing without concrete indisputable proof, otherwise it won't stick and the bandit operator goes right back to doing what it was doing and laughing all the way to the bank. If the US government wasn't the quagmire of beaurocracy that it is, things would happen much faster and much more efficiently. Too bad the system has been built up over the years to prevent just that.

The other source is the one that gets more "airtime" and more recognition, because it damn near proves the myth. There are certain FSDOs out there, and certain inspectors within those FSDOs, who literally just don't care. Their only purpose in life is to show up every day, metabolize oxygen for 8 and a half hours, collect a ridiculous GS14 salary, and count the days until retirement. A plane crash could happen right in front of their faces and they wouldn't bat an eye, maybe at most they'd muster the energy to yawn. I've had to deal with a couple inspectors who fit this description, and believe me when I say the agency will be much better off when these guys are gone.

 

[JAFI]

Everyone has to answer to someone. If you have proof of what you say and are getting no satisfaction:

A link to customer feedback that is addressed and recorded continuously:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/qms/


Any of these you’re repetitive? Give them your information. This is a hot topic right now.

http://transportation.house.gov/about.aspx

Or you can just sit back and bitch like the masses……

Sorry - Representative.... Spell check is only so good....

 

[Way2Broke]

Let's say I were to take a hooker up in a 150

Is the hooker paying for the flight or are you paying for the hooker?

were "holding out" my member for some servicing.

Not sure I even want to go there. But no FAR addresses "holding your member". I'm laughing too hard to type here....

After we land, she decides that the airplane ride was so enjoyable that the hummer is a freebie.

My first thought was "in your dreams"... But your post was more intellegent than the name calling and other childish behavior.


Does this constitute illegal charter?

As Avbug pointed out, it is not a charter if you land at the point of departure with in 25 miles. I think we could call your flight a "Discovery Flight".......

I would really like to use your example in a discussion. I'm just not sure how I can really do that........

JAFI - and I'm still laughing.....

That makes two of us. Great funny post.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'll take a little bow, if it was welcomed flame.

 

[Snakum]

It sounds more like a "scenic" flight as the hooker was most certainly looking out the window

Yeah ... the rear window. I ain't paying good money to have someone do something I can do much better. She'll have to play 'pounce da poney' if she wants me to anty-up with the green back on the ground.

 

[Snakum]

I forgot how to spell "pony". Geez.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

FAA HQ is VERY serious about the issue. As I have learned, FAA HQ often has nothing to do with local FSDOs or FAA regional offices.

Often, a FSDO or regional office is shocked to learn that FAA HQ is going after an entity that has done things wrong for years in their backyard. Sometimes even the FSDO/Regional office people get taken down by FAA HQ.

cliff
YIP

 

[gret]

Article from Bloomberg today-

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601010&sid=ayBZ9sUK_FUA&refer=news

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Article from Bloomberg today-

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601010&sid=ayBZ9sUK_FUA&refer=news

Good article.

 

[gulfstreameric]

They should establish a local access number for South Florida .....

LOL

 

[gulfstream2345]

As a former and now retired FAA inspector, I resemble some of those remarks. I used to get the Yellow Pages when they came out and call the numbers offering charters (that I knew had no certificate) and book a trip. Then I would show up with another devious, like me, inspector and we would actually get in the aircraft before we would identify ourselves and ask to see the charter certificate, OpsSpecs, insurance, pilot certificates, etc. Caught them redhanded all the time. They all got fines but sometimes, depending upon the NTSB Judge, the pilots would get off because we didn't fly. We won most cases as we "boarded the aircraft with the intention to fly". Finally we were told to stop doing what we were doing as it was considered by some to be entrapment. I never saw it that way because we were getting them for holding out which was clear by the Yellow Pages anyway. Oh for the good old days.

 

[CitationUltra]

As a former and now retired FAA inspector, I resemble some of those remarks. I used to get the Yellow Pages when they came out and call the numbers offering charters (that I knew had no certificate) and book a trip. Then I would show up with another devious, like me, inspector and we would actually get in the aircraft before we would identify ourselves and ask to see the charter certificate, OpsSpecs, insurance, pilot certificates, etc. Caught them redhanded all the time. They all got fines but sometimes, depending upon the NTSB Judge, the pilots would get off because we didn't fly. We won most cases as we "boarded the aircraft with the intention to fly". Finally we were told to stop doing what we were doing as it was considered by some to be entrapment. I never saw it that way because we were getting them for holding out which was clear by the Yellow Pages anyway. Oh for the good old days.

You are so right. Those were the days, when the FAA sought to stop illegal operations and facilitate good ones. I am finding that, in some regions, these practices are no longer the norm.

 

[CarjCapt]

After doing a questionable flight as a contract copilot in Challenger I suspected and asked the captain if this was a charter and he said that the aircraft/crew was leased to the entity that we were flying for.

Needless to say the hair on the back of my neck raised up and I decided that the money wasn't worth the possibility of a FAA action and didn't continue flying with them.

I later heard rumors that they were possibility being investigated but there were only rumors.

After going through what it took to start, run and own a legal Charter Company many years ago I applaud the FAA to do what it takes to stop 134 1/2 operators.

 

[JJET44]

Sorry i dont spend tons of time making sure my sentence structure correct on a forum! Like it matters. I asked a question about whether we could report an operator not adhering to its Ops Specs on the number given. No answer was given.

I hope you spend more time paying attention to detail while you're flying then you do while you're writing.

EITHER WAY, IT MATTERS!!!!

BTW, report anything you feel that needs to be addressed but if it dosn't pertaining to an illegal charter, report it to your FSDO.

 

[100-1/2]

This is a joke. It does not work.

Flying 12.5 hours in Cessna 310 in an unavoidable 16 hour duty day is an ILLEGAL CHARTER.

Flying someone's aircraft for another party whose
trip was publicly solicited and arranged for an agreed Price, Time and Destination(s) is an ILLEGAL CHARTER.

Flying your/company's aircraft to transport my customer for less money, without an air carrier certificate and ops specs is an ILLEGAL CHARTER.

All have been detailed extensively to my FSDO, the FSDO where these aircraft are based and the appropriate FAA Regional Offices.

Months later, these operations continue.

Don't waste your time. Status Quo prevails every time!

100-1/2

 

[brokeflyer]

i can easily see how a pilot wouldn't even know if it was an illegal charter. never knew a pilot to ask for proof of who was funding a specific flight before departure.

ya think the pilot wouldn't notice that he didn't take a 135 check with the feds?