Illegal charter

[Rally]

Al is not holding out. How is Al operating a illegal charter? There is a big difference between holding out?

 

[avbug]

Al doesn't need to be posting a sign to hold out, and holding out isn't necessary for it to be an illegal charter. Regardless of whether Al holds out or simply is referred by someone else, or is solicited privately by an individual, if he accepts money to transport persons or property from A to B, he's conducting an illegal charter. Further, if al has a reputation for doing so, even if he doesn't create it himself, and even if it's just from one person to another on the side, Al is holding out.

Holding out isn't a necessary component to perform the illegal charter. Accepting compensation or working for hire when conducting the flight from A to B is an illegal charter if Al doesn't hold at a minimum a single operator certificate.

Al deserves to reported.

 

[MtrHedAP]

I agree they should be reported, it hurts the certified 135 operators. The other question is should we report the 135 operator that does not follow the rules or regs that it was certified on?

 

[avbug]

The other question is should we report the 135 operator that does not follow the rules or regs that it was certified on?

Other than the fact that your question's sentence structure makes no sense, yes, certificate holders are given oversight and held to the operations specifications issued, them, as well as the pertinent regulations that apply to them.

 

[MtrHedAP]

Sorry i dont spend tons of time making sure my sentence structure correct on a forum! Like it matters. I asked a question about whether we could report an operator not adhering to its Ops Specs on the number given. No answer was given.

 

[avbug]

I didn't realize you were asking a question, as what you did state appeared to be rhetorical in nature, and was not understandable.

You didn't specify operations specifications...but then how would you know what operations specifications are issued a given operator? Those will be found in the operator's handbook, and won't be available to you. Do you intend to move from operator to operator, demanding (fruitlessly) for a copy of the operations manual and the OpSpecs, and then policing them yourself? Or would you rather let the dedicated and assigned FAA official, the Principal Operations Inspector who oversees that company, do that like he's paid to do?

You state that the question was never answered. It was, so far as it could be given the limitations of your question.

Do you understand 135 operations, and do you know what OpSpecs are?

An operator who has been assigned an operating certificate and operations specifications has a dedicated FAA employee who reviews the maintenance and paperwork, audits and inspects, who ensures compliance with the regulation, and who's primary function in life is to make sure the company does just what it's authorized to do. An illegal charter operator has no such coverage, no operations specifications, and attempts to operate under Part 91...bypassing the restrictive nature of part 135...which is designed for the safety of the traveling public, and whether you know it or not...is written in blood.

 

[AC560]

if he accepts money to transport persons or property from A to B, he's conducting an illegal charter.............
Holding out isn't a necessary component to perform the illegal charter. Accepting compensation or working for hire when conducting the flight from A to B is an illegal charter if Al doesn't hold at a minimum a single operator certificate.

I think you are painting with a very broad brush. One of the 4 elements of common carriage is holding out (1) a holding out of a willingness to (2) transport persons or property (3) from place to place (4) for compensation.

Specifically carriage which does not involve holding out is private carriage. AC120-12A which I know you are probably more familiar with then I am does a reasonable job of differentiating between common and private carriage.

Al isn't necessarily operating an illegal charter nor does everyone who takes money for flying somebody doing the same. I will agree though that is a very fine line and the best advice is the last paragraph of the circular Persons who have questions concerning intended operation of their aircraft are encouraged to discuss their proposed operation with the Regional Counsel of the FAA region in which it intends to establish its principal
business office. Such early interviews will materially assist the applicant in avoiding many of the "pitfalls" which could result in illegal common carriage operations.

 

[hawkerjet]

In Kuala Lumpur, there are N registered aircraft that don't match the FAA records, flying charters all over SE Asia. I looked up a G III, and a Lear 60 "N "registration only to find out that the registration number for the GIII was to a C 172, and the Lear 60 registration belonged to a Maule.

 

[ackattacker]

It's about time (for the hotline).

There are a lot of illegal charter operations going. Most will try to justify their existence with some tortuous (incorrect) interpretation of the rules. It can be tricky as a pilot to weed through all the bull. And it's very frustrating for legit charter operations, who are subject to intense FAA scrutiny while the 134.5 guy across the street does whatever he wants. In the past it has seemed the FAA almost willfully looked the other way. Too much work I suppose. If you don't have an operating certificate you are under the FAA radar unless you crack one up. That needs to change.

 

[Daveman]

The FAA is serious enough about it, they've opened an illegal charter hotline. From the AIN Online email newsletter...

So, the FAA is now just getting around to this problem? Wow, how long did it take for them to figure this one out? And I'm talking about the "hotline". I bet some guy got an "at-a-boy" :beer:when this was published.

Thanks for the good laugh!