Illegal charter

[avbug]

The FAA is serious enough about it, they've opened an illegal charter hotline. From the AIN Online email newsletter...

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]FAA Grant Funds Illegal Charter Hotline
The FAA has provided grant money to fund a hotline for charter operators to report “suspected illegal commercial activity,” according to the National Air Transportation Association, which is administering the system. The hotline–(888) 759-3581–is designed for employees or agents of Part 135 charter certificate holders to report activities that they suspect are illegal charters, NATA explained, “where an aircraft operator without an FAA Part 135 certificate is accepting compensation for transportation, in violation of both FAA and Department of Transportation regulations.” Illegal charter is a perpetual problem in the charter industry, affecting safety because non-certified operators don’t meet Part 135 standards and also undercutting revenues earned by legitimate charter operators. According to NATA’s “Risks of Illegal Charters” guide, “Illegal air charter operations are prevalent around much of the U.S. One review of South Florida’s Yellow Pages and FAA records indicated that 14 of the companies listed were operating a charter business illegally.” Hotline callers can report anonymously and will receive a case number. Details of the case will be provided to the FAA, and NATA will follow up to ensure the agency is taking appropriate action. The hotline is staffed by an independent third-party, according to NATA.[/FONT]

 

[340]

I thought most guys just operated off 134 and 1/2 regs?

 

[414Flyer]

I did most of my instruction in Wichita Falls TX, a city of about 100,000 people, and no charter outfits could ever survive, because of a guy doing so much 134.5 with multiple airplanes, and several rich clients.

 

[McNugget]

The FAA is serious enough about it, they've opened an illegal charter hotline. From the AIN Online email newsletter...

At least they manage to keep it on the runway.

 

[NW_Pilot]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Hotline callers can report anonymously"

hahahaha nothing in this day and age is [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]anonymous call their 800 number they got your info! There are such things as caller id etc.. but most rats believe they are [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]anonymous!

I Wonder how many false reports they will get! It seems like a big waste of time and federal monies.

If someone is operating without a certificate they will get caught.... I seriously doubt that the general public will know the difference between legal and not legal.


[/FONT]

 

[hockeypilot44]

I would call from a payphone. Actually, no I wouldn't. I would mind my own business.

 

[NW_Pilot]

I would call from a payphone. Actually, no I wouldn't. I would mind my own business.

Correct, mind your own business... Not your, mine, or anyones job to be a Rat.

 

[gret]

They are not kidding about this. The issue is that they go after us if it should be a Part 135 flight and we are flying Part 91. A008 is the prelude and they have cleaned up on some of the charter guys, now they are after Part 91 flight departments. Do what you want, but it is hard to fly legally under Part 91 with the rules regarding corporate allocations and personal use by executives.

 

[landlover]

i can easily see how a pilot wouldn't even know if it was an illegal charter. never knew a pilot to ask for proof of who was funding a specific flight before departure.

 

[avbug]

There's nothing improper about reporting illegal charter. I'll do it in a heartbeat. An individual who is taking business away from charter operators by doing illegal charter is damaging the industry.

Operators under Part 135 must carry expensive insurance, maintain records and training and maintenance to a higher level, and incur all the costs that go along with it, including hiring qualified pilots and paying to keep them current.

The private pilot or commercial pilot who takes money on the side to fly people or property from A to B not only violates the regulation, but undercuts the legitimate operator, as well as presents a flying hazard.

Correct, mind your own business... Not your, mine, or anyones job to be a Rat.

Considering your overall mentality, there's a lot that could be said about you and rats, but leaving that aside for the moment, you're entirely wrong. It's everybody's business. And responsibility.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] If someone is operating without a certificate they will get caught.... I seriously doubt that the general public will know the difference between legal and not legal.[/FONT]

When Mr. Smith pays his buddy Al to take him to Yazoo City in his Bonanza, he knows he's not chartering from a legitimate service. He's paying his buddy Al. Whether he knows it's legal or not is really irrelevant. Whether someone else does, and uses the hotline or other venue to report this illegal operation, is very much relevant, as well as proper. If big buddy Al wants to take the charter, then let him get a 135 certificate, pay for the cost of setting it up, maintaining it, the insurance, the maintenance, and the training...then by all means, go for it. Until then, a violation of the regulation is a violation of the regulation, and certainly deserves to be dealt with accordingly.

At least they manage to keep it on the runway.

Meaning what, exactly?

 

[Rally]

Al is not holding out. How is Al operating a illegal charter? There is a big difference between holding out?

 

[avbug]

Al doesn't need to be posting a sign to hold out, and holding out isn't necessary for it to be an illegal charter. Regardless of whether Al holds out or simply is referred by someone else, or is solicited privately by an individual, if he accepts money to transport persons or property from A to B, he's conducting an illegal charter. Further, if al has a reputation for doing so, even if he doesn't create it himself, and even if it's just from one person to another on the side, Al is holding out.

Holding out isn't a necessary component to perform the illegal charter. Accepting compensation or working for hire when conducting the flight from A to B is an illegal charter if Al doesn't hold at a minimum a single operator certificate.

Al deserves to reported.

 

[MtrHedAP]

I agree they should be reported, it hurts the certified 135 operators. The other question is should we report the 135 operator that does not follow the rules or regs that it was certified on?

 

[avbug]

The other question is should we report the 135 operator that does not follow the rules or regs that it was certified on?

Other than the fact that your question's sentence structure makes no sense, yes, certificate holders are given oversight and held to the operations specifications issued, them, as well as the pertinent regulations that apply to them.

 

[MtrHedAP]

Sorry i dont spend tons of time making sure my sentence structure correct on a forum! Like it matters. I asked a question about whether we could report an operator not adhering to its Ops Specs on the number given. No answer was given.

 

[avbug]

I didn't realize you were asking a question, as what you did state appeared to be rhetorical in nature, and was not understandable.

You didn't specify operations specifications...but then how would you know what operations specifications are issued a given operator? Those will be found in the operator's handbook, and won't be available to you. Do you intend to move from operator to operator, demanding (fruitlessly) for a copy of the operations manual and the OpSpecs, and then policing them yourself? Or would you rather let the dedicated and assigned FAA official, the Principal Operations Inspector who oversees that company, do that like he's paid to do?

You state that the question was never answered. It was, so far as it could be given the limitations of your question.

Do you understand 135 operations, and do you know what OpSpecs are?

An operator who has been assigned an operating certificate and operations specifications has a dedicated FAA employee who reviews the maintenance and paperwork, audits and inspects, who ensures compliance with the regulation, and who's primary function in life is to make sure the company does just what it's authorized to do. An illegal charter operator has no such coverage, no operations specifications, and attempts to operate under Part 91...bypassing the restrictive nature of part 135...which is designed for the safety of the traveling public, and whether you know it or not...is written in blood.

 

[AC560]

if he accepts money to transport persons or property from A to B, he's conducting an illegal charter.............
Holding out isn't a necessary component to perform the illegal charter. Accepting compensation or working for hire when conducting the flight from A to B is an illegal charter if Al doesn't hold at a minimum a single operator certificate.

I think you are painting with a very broad brush. One of the 4 elements of common carriage is holding out (1) a holding out of a willingness to (2) transport persons or property (3) from place to place (4) for compensation.

Specifically carriage which does not involve holding out is private carriage. AC120-12A which I know you are probably more familiar with then I am does a reasonable job of differentiating between common and private carriage.

Al isn't necessarily operating an illegal charter nor does everyone who takes money for flying somebody doing the same. I will agree though that is a very fine line and the best advice is the last paragraph of the circular Persons who have questions concerning intended operation of their aircraft are encouraged to discuss their proposed operation with the Regional Counsel of the FAA region in which it intends to establish its principal
business office. Such early interviews will materially assist the applicant in avoiding many of the "pitfalls" which could result in illegal common carriage operations.

 

[hawkerjet]

In Kuala Lumpur, there are N registered aircraft that don't match the FAA records, flying charters all over SE Asia. I looked up a G III, and a Lear 60 "N "registration only to find out that the registration number for the GIII was to a C 172, and the Lear 60 registration belonged to a Maule.

 

[ackattacker]

It's about time (for the hotline).

There are a lot of illegal charter operations going. Most will try to justify their existence with some tortuous (incorrect) interpretation of the rules. It can be tricky as a pilot to weed through all the bull. And it's very frustrating for legit charter operations, who are subject to intense FAA scrutiny while the 134.5 guy across the street does whatever he wants. In the past it has seemed the FAA almost willfully looked the other way. Too much work I suppose. If you don't have an operating certificate you are under the FAA radar unless you crack one up. That needs to change.

 

[Daveman]

The FAA is serious enough about it, they've opened an illegal charter hotline. From the AIN Online email newsletter...

So, the FAA is now just getting around to this problem? Wow, how long did it take for them to figure this one out? And I'm talking about the "hotline". I bet some guy got an "at-a-boy" :beer:when this was published.

Thanks for the good laugh!