IFR without Approach Procedure?

[weekendwarrior]

Ok...I'm drawing a blank. If you want to file IFR and your destination does not have a published approach, can you file to that destination? If so, how do you do it and determine alternate if there is no published approach?

 

[Westwindflyer]

The airport you want to fly to must be forecasting VFR conditions. You also need to be able to descend from the enroute structure to the airport VFR. I think you must also file an alternate.If the airport has no TAF use the area forecast. Refer to 91.169

 

[ventus]

Assuming part 91...

Yes, you can file to an airport without a published instrument approach procedure. You must have VFR conditions to descend below the minimum altitude for IFR operations (see FAR 91.177)

If your destination does not have an instrument approach procedure you must file an alternate (see 91.169)

 

[Westwindflyer]

Ventus put it better than I did listen to him.

 

[weekendwarrior]

That's not the question.

91.169 states that if the *Alternate* does not have an approach procedure, then you have to decend VFR from MDA and land under basic VFR. This is not for the destination.

I can't interperet whether or not you need a published approach procedure at the *destination.* The requirement for the alternate, is still 2000/3 to not need an alternate.

So, the question is, does your destination have to have a published approach procedure if you file IFR to that destination?

 

[IP076]

91.169 states that you must file an alternate airport always....unless....

1. The weather within 1 hour of ETA is forecast to be greater than 2000' Cig and 3 sm visibility.

and

2. The destination airport has an approved instrument approach procedure.

So, when planning, pick your destination, and ask yourself two questions:

1. Is the weather better than mentioned above?
2. Does the airport have an Instrument Approach Procedure?

If you answer "No" to either of them, you must file an alternate.

You are correct in saying that you can use an airport without an approach as an alternate if the weather will allow approach and landing from the Minimum IFR Altitude (not MDA) to the airport under basic VFR.

To answer your question, you can file to an airport without an approach procedure...look at it this way, you could file to the moon if you wanted too!

 

[SDCFI]

91.169

(b) Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not apply if :
(1) Part 97 of this chapter prescribes a standard instrument approach procedure to, or a special instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the operator for, the first airport of intended landing; and

So, if the dest apt does not have an IAP you need to file an alternate no matter what the wx. So yes you can file IFR to an airport without an instrument approach, you just have to file an alternate and meet the alt fuel req's of 91.167. Makes sense because assuming IMC along the route there's no gaurantee of encountering VMC and proceding to the dest apt. The 2000/3 rule only applies if the dest apt has an IAP. Why can't they just write these things in plain english from the beginning?

 

[SDCFI]

Darnit IPO, you beat me to it

 

[FN FAL]

To answer your question, you can file to an airport without an approach procedure...look at it this way, you could file to the moon if you wanted too!

no you couldn't. first of all, which plane could go to the moon and go to a legal alternate with the required fuel reserves and what ICAO identifier are you going to file to on the moon?

 

[Magneto]

no you couldn't. first of all, which plane could go to the moon and go to a legal alternate with the required fuel reserves and what ICAO identifier are you going to file to on the moon?

Smart A$$

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

You can file to anywhere IFR. The airport doesnt even need an ICAO identifier. Heck, it doesn't even need to be an airport. could be your backyard. All you need are the lat/long coordinates on the flight plan for it to work. Or a VOR radial/DME distance.

 

[IP076]

no you couldn't. first of all, which plane could go to the moon and go to a legal alternate with the required fuel reserves and what ICAO identifier are you going to file to on the moon?

Yeah, Smart A$$

Let see, I'm sure you could get the 3 Dimensional Cooridinates of the moon somewhere.

Actually, just file to a fix, and for above FL600...then you're back in Class E and go VFR to the moon......

Point is, you can file anywhere you want, to an airport, VOR, NDB, intersection, made up waypoint, or even your backyard...

 

[groundpointsix]

To answer your question, you can file to an airport without an approach procedure...look at it this way, you could file to the moon if you wanted too!

Don't forget to file your FAA form 8800-1 (Launch Notification Form) prior to filing to the moon. And to think someone told me just yesterday that I would never have to know the number of that form...

 

[weekendwarrior]

Thanks for the clarification. I read that FAR probably a dozen times last night. I couldn't visualize what they were saying. Too late, and not enough sleep I guess! They are so ambigueous sometimes! Heck, they don't even list how to file to the moon.