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If you're voting NO...

JustaNumber

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If you're voting NO, what would need to be changed in the TA for you to vote yes? I have a suspicion that management would have loved current book from the very start of negotiations, and they're thrilled they have us considering this massive giveaway.

I'm sure management reads these boards, so let's give them an idea of what we want (since the union has yet to do that--they don't even know what we want!)

I want 20% pay increases across the board (if it's good enough for one set of pilots who fly Delta customers, it should be good enough for all such pilots). However, I realize that is not going to happen, as I have been deemed a second class C-scale employee (thanks ALPA!). So here's the MINIMUM I will accept:

--Scrap EVERYTHING in the TA, loose language for max company flexibility and all. Give us current book, with 1% pay increases per year for the duration of the contract ON ALL EQUIPMENT (which is still just a fraction of real inflation, i.e. this is still accepting a significant reduction in real wages). Management wants to work us harder to avoid hiring new pilots; this is not acceptable for me. If you want greater productivity, pay me more.

--There MUST be improvements in Q.O.L. for reserves. If you're not on reserve now, there's a good chance you will be in the future, with the company's lack of a long-term plan REGARDLESS OF HOW THIS TA TURNS OUT. Just ask any Comair pilot if they would have accepted XJT's proposed reserve rules while they were dying? MANDATORY improvements include same number of off days as everyone else; either make all off days GDOs or same number of GDOs but pay 150% on top of guarantee for moved off days; and remove requirement to "be released" after a flight assignment.

That's my short list of requirements for me to even consider their offer (and I'm not even sure if that 1% raise is gonna do it). What are your requirements?
 

Freebrd

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I want more per diem so I can eat at Five Guys! :)
 

jetstream

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1. Current pay scale with raises tied to company profitability.

2. New pay system in which we are paid an hourly wage from duty in to duty out. This eliminates the issue of duty rigs and to some extent min day. My time is worth X amount of dollars per hour. If you want me to fly, I'll fly. If you want me to sit, I'll sit. Also, eliminates the issue of brake release or aircraft movement.

3. Pay scales that are not dependent on aircraft type. You are either a captain or an FO for pay purposes.

4. Even distribution of vacation weeks.
If not that then this; if I bid for a particular week and don't get it because the company reduced the number of slots that week then I get the option of X number of extra vacation days or double time for the trip I have to fly during the week I wanted off.

5. Fix the reserve system.

6. Crew notification stays as is.

7. Elimination of occurrences for sick calls.
 

Max Q

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If I'm at work, I'm getting paid an hourly rate. None of this door closed brake released BS. I will vote NO to every TA that doesn't honor this. This industry is completely ****ed with how pilots have allowed management to create a system of only being on the clock if certain conditions are met. Getting 2:1 pay on ready reserve, training, etc... No. This needs to change.
 

PBRstreetgang

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For the skitzo!
 

enuffalready

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4 CDO's in a row is from 3 contracts ago. You better believe the company will start doing 4 on 1 off. That's a disaster waiting to happen with 6 hours on ground in XNA on day 4. As long as that is in there I'm voting no.
 
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blesko

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1. Control of the pairing generation software
2. Every day is a hard day off for reserves
3. Line holders can refuse extensions. If they opt to take the extension, time is paid at 2x above guarantee
4. Duty Rigs
5. Elimination of occurrences and model after any major sick time policy at any company...it works in the Fortune 500 world well.
6. Flex time in lieu of sick time.
7. Alt DH is always granted and paid
8. Similar system to green slips at DL where line holders can be put on reserve if they choose for days off and trip is paid at 2x the pay rate above guarantee

That's just for starters
 

livin'thesim

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Does the new part 117 help in some ways?

It seems to me that pilot groups in negotiations no longer need to bargain for some of the things that this reg will bring into force.
 

Nevets

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What would need to be changed in order for me to vote yes? Only ONE thing: ONE LIST!
 

JustaNumber

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What would need to be changed in order for me to vote yes? Only ONE thing: ONE LIST!

I'm curious if this was even suggested. I would imagine most pilots would give it a serious look, and this could solve multiple problems for both pilots and management. So what's the problem?
 

PBRstreetgang

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Because Steven L tells Jerry Atkins what to do with his company.

I don't think JA really cares anymore, look at SKYW, chimp cannot bid a contract that will be awarded. Major partners will always pull the strings, anymore flying to SKYW puts more power with one player. Look at what happened at DAL when Comair struck, while SKYW pilots don't have the junk to be players, hostile takeover is one card still on the table and it's a joker. SKYW flys what, 50% of UAL's domestic, 30% of DAL's? Take over SKYW, keep your regional feed intact and let your competition figure out how to get domestic feed up immediately.
It will be interesting.
 

CX880

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Pipe dreams I'm afraid. When it comes down to it guys always vote yes! It's very hard to say no to your management eventhough that's what you're always supposed to do in negotiations.

You wouldn't pay full price for that lap dance would you? No you negotiate instead of saying yes...
 

PBRstreetgang

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You wouldn't pay full price for that lap dance would you? No you negotiate instead of saying yes...

Gotta pay a female dog to sit in your lap, huh? At least you can lick your own nuts though.
 

JustaNumber

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I don't think JA really cares anymore, look at SKYW, chimp cannot bid a contract that will be awarded. Major partners will always pull the strings, anymore flying to SKYW puts more power with one player. Look at what happened at DAL when Comair struck, while SKYW pilots don't have the junk to be players, hostile takeover is one card still on the table and it's a joker. SKYW flys what, 50% of UAL's domestic, 30% of DAL's? Take over SKYW, keep your regional feed intact and let your competition figure out how to get domestic feed up immediately.
It will be interesting.
I don't think that's a possibility. Contracts are in place that require feed to be provided, at least for now.
 

PBRstreetgang

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I don't think that's a possibility. Contracts are in place that require feed to be provided, at least for now.

JA has said the contracts all have "poison pill" clause, hostile takeover kills the contract. Until recently there hasn't been enough liquid cash for this to take place, but now that DAL and UAL have started making profit, not to mention the merger mania is quenched. There is market share to be played with this one.
 
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Nevets

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I'm curious if this was even suggested. I would imagine most pilots would give it a serious look, and this could solve multiple problems for both pilots and management. So what's the problem?


I asked our MEC at the last meeting this very question and they said that they did offer Skywest book for one list. Supposedly, the company turned it down because they just want to run two separate airlines.
 

JustaNumber

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I asked our MEC at the last meeting this very question and they said that they did offer Skywest book for one list. Supposedly, the company turned it down because they just want to run two separate airlines.

"Because I said so" is not a logical reason. I'll have to ask management for a better explanation; if anyone gets a chance post the real reason here. I'm suspecting it has more to do with whipsaw opportunities.
 

Clutch

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"Because I said so" is not a logical reason. I'll have to ask management for a better explanation; if anyone gets a chance post the real reason here. I'm suspecting it has more to do with whipsaw opportunities.

"We can't even merge 2 companies. We can't expect to realistically merge 3."

-Brad Holt
 
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