If/When Spirit Strikes

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are the Spirit pilots on their own or do we walk the line with them?

 

[PCL_128]

AirTran pilots have already walked with them, and will continue to do so I'm sure. Good luck to the Spirit pilots. You guys deserve a fair contract, and I'm sure you'll get one soon.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Where would the picket lines be?

 

[Mike man]

Are the Spirit pilots on their own or do we walk the line with them?

Wow...

Thanks to all who walked on Monday at Spirit Headquarters which included 50 Spirit pilots as well as pilots from Atlas, Amerijet (Teamsters), Comair, Alaska, Continental, and Delta which included the Delta MEC chairman, Capt. Lee Moak.

The previous Friday the line was at the FLL terminal which included over 60 Spirit pilots as well as pilots from United, Pinnacle, Polar, AirTran, Gulfstream and Amerijet.

So again thank you to all who came to show support. And Rez O. Lewshun you don't have to come if you don't want to...but thanks for prompting someone to write a quick update and thank you on FI.

I'll even try to keep this updated with some type of information that I receive for all to see.

 

[Mike man]

So to update everyone...scheduled mediated negotiations ended February 18 with no progress. Proffer of arbitration was filled for Fall 2009 awaiting ruling.

Spirit management has settled on a concessionary contract, here are the highlights:

• Longevity, 1 step for every 840 block hours flown--current contract date of hire equals 1 step
• Opentime and Junior man (JRM) opentime pickups 100%, voluntary JRM 125%, involuntary JRM 150%--current contract opentime 150% JRM 200% no distinction between voluntary or involuntary
• International over ride 0%--current 8%
• Holiday pay 0--current (not much better) $75 for holiday worked (reserve on call with no flight does not get holiday pay)
• Minimum guarantee 70 hours all pilots--current 72 hours all pilots
• Per Diem 1.90 goes up every two years max 2.00 paid only on over nights once off duty in overnight city--current 1.95 paid from check in
• No vacation carry over--current partial carry over
• Hours of service FAR minimums--current slightly better
• 2 days off between trips--current 4 days off between trips
• 2 hours call out for reserves--current 3 hour call out
• Reserves must call every day to find out what scheduling has for them
• Reserves availability may be moved 12 hours before or after assignment to suit needs--current can't change (may change start for rest)
• Reassignments up to 4 hours after original release--current no more than 2 hours after
• Rescheduling NO RESTRICTIONS; paid premium if more than 25% of fleet is affected
• 401(k) matching 3%--Current 8%

Pay

CA
Current DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 DOS+5
1 $64.65 $64.65 $64.65 $64.65 $64.65 $64.65 $64.65
2 $96.64 $96.64 $96.64 $96.64 $96.64 $96.64 $96.64
3 $104.46 $104.46 $104.46 $104.46 $104.46 $104.46 $104.46
4 $108.14 $108.14 $108.14 $108.14 $108.14 $108.14 $108.14
5 $115.51 $115.51 $115.51 $115.51 $115.51 $115.51 $115.51
6 $117.65 $117.65 $117.65 $117.65 $117.65 $121.18 $121.18
7 $119.74 $119.74 $119.74 $124.53 $124.53 $129.51 $132.10
8 $121.53 $123.96 $123.96 $128.92 $128.92 $134.08 $136.76
9 $123.35 $128.28 $128.28 $133.42 $133.42 $138.75 $142.91
10 $125.21 $130.22 $130.22 $135.43 $135.43 $140.84 $146.48
11 $127.75 $132.86 $132.86 $138.17 $138.17 $143.70 $150.17
12 $130.27 $135.48 $135.48 $140.90 $140.90 $146.54 $153.86
13 $132.81 $138.12 $138.12 $143.65 $143.65 $149.39 $156.86
14 $135.36 $140.77 $140.77 $146.41 $146.41 $152.26 $159.87
15 $137.88 $143.40 $143.40 $149.13 $149.13 $155.10 $162.00

FO
Current DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 DOS+51 $40.00 $38.50 $38.50 $38.50 $38.50 $38.50 $38.50
2 $51.96 $53.96 $53.96 $56.12 $56.12 $58.64 $61.28
3 $56.25 $58.05 $58.05 $60.37 $60.37 $63.09 $65.93
4 $60.50 $62.62 $62.62 $65.12 $65.12 $68.05 $71.12
5 $64.70 $66.96 $66.96 $69.64 $69.64 $72.78 $76.05
6 $66.75 $69.09 $69.09 $71.85 $71.85 $75.08 $78.46
7 $68.45 $70.85 $70.85 $73.68 $73.68 $77.00 $80.46
8 $70.00 $71.75 $71.75 $74.62 $74.62 $77.98 $81.49
9 $70.50 $72.26 $72.26 $75.15 $75.15 $78.53 $82.07
10 $71.37 $73.15 $73.15 $76.08 $76.08 $79.50 $83.08
11 $71.37 $73.15 $73.15 $76.08 $76.08 $79.50 $83.08
12 $71.37 $73.15 $73.15 $76.08 $76.08 $79.50 $83.08

Pay highlights (lowlights?)

At DOS 12 year Captain rates are 17% below Jet Blue, 13% below AirTran, and 22% below the AirTran rejected TA.

At DOS FO pay is little changed from current CBA.

In 2015 at DOS+5 top Captain pay would still require a 12% raise to match the rejected 2010 Airtran rates.

In 2015 at DOS+5 top FO pay would still require a 20% raise to match the rejected 2010 Airtran rates.

 

[knightflyer]

Are the Spirit pilots on their own or do we walk the line with them?

What's with the "WE" $/it Captain Unity? Sorry couldn't resist you'r constant stirring the pot!!!:laugh:

 

[GuppyWN]

Good lord that contract is aweful. Talk about kicking you in the jimmy!

Gup

 

[pilotyip]

What if Spirit goes out of business?

 

[flygirlqt]

What if Spirit goes out of business?

What if pilots across the Nation grew a set of balls?

 

[Kalifornia]

What if Spirit goes out of business?

Good Lord, you gotta be the oldest fricken tool in the professional aviation universe. The depth charged dementia puppet your upper managers love to troll along like a run down dog. Here Pilot Yip, here boy, come to the internet. Post for us ya dumb dog...help us tear down the pilot profession. Yea, that's it fellow. Don't wonder too far from your leash.

 

[PCL_128]

What if Spirit goes out of business?

Then an awful lot of investors will have lost of an awful lot of money, just to screw over a few hundred pilots and not pay them what every other pilot in the industry gets. Sound smart? Didn't think so.

Take your defeatism and bulls--- somewhere else. No one here is buying it.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

What if Spirit goes out of business?

If Spirit can't pay a competitive wage and stay in business, then they deserve to go out of business. It's not worthwhile to be a pilot for the contract management want.

 

[pilotyip]

I see standard FI answers, insults, name calling, etc, but how come no one answered the questions? Why do I get calls from Spirit pilots asking about hiring plans at JUS? In the end the consumer determines what the pilots will get paid, not management, not unions, not the gov't. BTW If all the pilot grew balls, would that require single gender operations?

 

[Mamma]

Yip, while I agree the consumer has a part in determining pilot wages, management bears the brunt. Their "ultra low cost" model has to include paying pilots a competitive wage with competitive benefits. Do they pay their insurance provider 75% of the going rate? Do they pay their attorney's 75% of their going rate? What about landing fees, gate fees, taxes? Do they get a free pass to short all those fees too? I don't think so! Pilots are a cost of doing business and management should be able to provide a competitive compensation package. I would love to hear management call the insurance company and say we will only pay 3/4 of what you want because we might go out of business! Oh, yes we turn a profit but don't look at that!

Spirit management is playing the game right now...get as much as they can for as little cost as possible. I might do the same if I were in management. Are they bluffing? I don't know. The only way to find out is to stay united and be ready to strike. Are you advocating throwing in the towel and taking this crappy offer?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I see standard FI answers, insults, name calling, etc, but how come no one answered the questions? Why do I get calls from Spirit pilots asking about hiring plans at JUS? In the end the consumer determines what the pilots will get paid, not management, not unions, not the gov't. BTW If all the pilot grew balls, would that require single gender operations?

Then there is no need for coporations to lobby govt to get the legislation and policy they want..... correct?

 

[pilotyip]

Thank You

Yip, while I agree the consumer has a part in determining pilot wages, management bears the brunt. Their "ultra low cost" model has to include paying pilots a competitive wage with competitive benefits. Do they pay their insurance provider 75% of the going rate? Do they pay their attorney's 75% of their going rate? What about landing fees, gate fees, taxes? Do they get a free pass to short all those fees too? I don't think so! Pilots are a cost of doing business and management should be able to provide a competitive compensation package. I would love to hear management call the insurance company and say we will only pay 3/4 of what you want because we might go out of business! Oh, yes we turn a profit but don't look at that!

Spirit management is playing the game right now...get as much as they can for as little cost as possible. I might do the same if I were in management. Are they bluffing? I don't know. The only way to find out is to stay united and be ready to strike. Are you advocating throwing in the towel and taking this crappy offer?

Thank you for a civil answer. I wish nothing but the best for the Spirit pilots; I have many friends there. The contract is a slap in the face, it sucks, but it is better than the situation the guys from ATA, Airborne, DHL, Alstar and Midwest Express now face. When I see the battle cry of "Strike" I get worried. Spirit at best is a marginal airline, if they make a profit it is very small. They have tremendous debt service. They live on their cash flow, a strike that would stop that cash flow for even a short period of time could be fatal. Is it a bluff? Then JUS will look like one of the better jobs out like it does for the, Airborne, DHL, Alstar and Midwest Express pilots who send me resumes daily. I wish them the best and I still drink beer with the Spirit pilots.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I see standard FI answers, insults, name calling, etc, but how come no one answered the questions? Why do I get calls from Spirit pilots asking about hiring plans at JUS? In the end the consumer determines what the pilots will get paid, not management, not unions, not the gov't. BTW If all the pilot grew balls, would that require single gender operations?

I see the standard FI stupidity is alive and well in the scumbag/management/scab wanna be pilotyip!
If they went out of business a lot of stake holders and people would be out of money because a terrible management (just like you) team wanted to prove a point.
BTW, if people would stop applying to scum sucking ******************** hole operations like yours, there would be less people like you still flying in this industry!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thank you for a civil answer. I wish nothing but the best for the Spirit pilots; I have many friends there. The contract is a slap in the face, it sucks, but it is better than the situation the guys from ATA, Airborne, DHL, Alstar and Midwest Express now face. When I see the battle cry of "Strike" I get worried. Spirit at best is a marginal airline, if they make a profit it is very small. They have tremendous debt service. They live on their cash flow, a strike that would stop that cash flow for even a short period of time could be fatal. Is it a bluff? Then JUS will look like one of the better jobs out like it does for the, Airborne, DHL, Alstar and Midwest Express pilots who send me resumes daily. I wish them the best and I still drink beer with the Spirit pilots.

Are you drinking with the potential strike breakers? Were the pilots of ABX, Airborne, DHL Alstar and Midex responsible for a viable business plan or management? Should pilots safely fly jets from pt. A to B or should they fool themselves like you and actually think that they are part of management and responsible thru their compensation package of keeping the airline solvent. There is one born every minute.

So you are saying that the pilots should accept that Spirit is marginal and accept the pay that management gives, all while hoping management doesn't use this acceptance as leverage to jack wages down. There is one born every minute.

Never mind that E&FA study the management business plan and know what is fair and reasonable.

Should the airline industry, a national asset, be treated as a pure market commodity, or should there be protections in place so that the speculation and at times radical fluctuation of the market don't effect commerce?

 

[pilotyip]

yes dear

Are you drinking with the potential strike breakers? Were the pilots of............at the speculation and at times radical fluctuation of the market don't effect commerce?

yes dear, whatever you say

 

[Lear70]

What if Spirit goes out of business?

Same thing that happens when USA Jet goes out of business. Again.

Another operator steps in to pick up the slack, management goes looking for a job with a destroyed company on their record, pi$$ed off shareholders make sure that CEO doesn't work in aviation again for a while, and life goes on.

Sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and say "no more". Kind of like me faxing my resume up to you guys for that Lear Chief Pilot job and telling you I'd take it for $120k a year. I knew you weren't going to call, but it was worth it for the wakeup call to what a Chief Pilot managing 5 other line pilots and 2 Lears is really worth. Not $55k. (yes, I know you didn't set the pay rates, but come on... 55k? really?)

Back to reality... Spirit isn't going anywhere, except maybe stopping operations for a few weeks. If the pilots saved their money like they should have been since the strike vote, should be a non-event.

 

[Sandhawk]

Sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and say "no more". Kind of like me faxing my resume up to you guys for that Lear Chief Pilot job and telling you I'd take it for $120k a year. I knew you weren't going to call, but it was worth it for the wakeup call to what a Chief Pilot managing 5 other line pilots and 2 Lears is really worth. Not $55k. (yes, I know you didn't set the pay rates, but come on... 55k? really?)

Wow - $55,000 ???

USAJet used to be one of the better outfits - talk about "Lowering the bar" !!!

 

[Mamma]

Thank you for a civil answer. I wish nothing but the best for the Spirit pilots; I have many friends there. The contract is a slap in the face, it sucks, but it is better than the situation the guys from ATA, Airborne, DHL, Alstar and Midwest Express now face. When I see the battle cry of "Strike" I get worried. Spirit at best is a marginal airline, if they make a profit it is very small. They have tremendous debt service. They live on their cash flow, a strike that would stop that cash flow for even a short period of time could be fatal. Is it a bluff? Then JUS will look like one of the better jobs out like it does for the, Airborne, DHL, Alstar and Midwest Express pilots who send me resumes daily. I wish them the best and I still drink beer with the Spirit pilots.

1) If management is any good and they know a strike would kill the airline they will cave at the last moment...unless they have a golden parachutes.

2) If the airline would fail because they have to pay the pilots a competitive wage, then I would have to say they are on borrowed time anyway.

Spirit's management sucks. Did you see the clip where their CEO basically defended crappy service. "Hey, the passengers are paying ultra cheap prices. If they don't like the crappy service, then too bad. Go somewhere else. But, they will be back no matter how crappy we are because they want the cheap ticket." I feel sorry for the FAs that have to deal with these low rent passengers who would let someone treat them like garbage to get a cheap ticket.

 

[EngineThunder]

Wow - $55,000 ???

USAJet used to be one of the better outfits - talk about "Lowering the bar" !!!

55k for chief pilot. I would hate to see the rates for the line pilots for those two Learjets.

 

[boomlrd]

Spirit barely making a profit? I suggest you read up on the quarterly filings with the DOT regarding Spirit revenue. Spirit has the lowest cost per seat mile and also has the highest profit margin per seat mile of any U.S. carrier. and thats just the money they actually report. Debt load? None, they lease the planes. Hedge fund owned and operated, they are roughly making 1 million dollars per airplane, per quarter in profit alone. Nice! We will burn it down if they will not give us a fair contract!

 

[airmack]

My bet is that Republic will do your flying for pennies on the dollar. The company will furlough all their pilots and sell off to Republic. Then the Republic pilots will be happy to fly your routes for $35 per hour.

 

[pilotyip]

Well I hope I am all wrong and you guys are all right. That you will get what you think is fair. I just keep thinking about posts from way back by the ME and ATA guys about reaching industry parity at marginal airlines. But that could never happen an another airline, so don't worry, besides as someone posted there would a certain satisfaction in seeing them fold.

 

[Ty Webb]

YIP, for crissake, hang it up already. The last hing this industry needs is another company apologist/chief propaganda pilot dishing out those same scabby homilies.

Spirit's airplanes probably cost about $5,000./hr to operate. A healthy raise would probably increase their hourly costs by about 1%. Pilot costs have very little to do with profitability, but they have A LOT to do with executive bonuses.

Pilots are fighting management for the same piece of pie. Either we get it, or they get it. It's NOT going to the bank, the passengers, or the shareholders.

Why don't you do the right thing and retire already? Give your other pilots a chance to move up, and to have a CP with more reasonable expectations.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Spirit and Airtran..... shut Florida down. Little Susie, the princess can go to Disney next year.....

 

[pilotyip]

Cp?

YIP, for crissake, hang it up already. The last hing this industry needs is another company apologist/chief propaganda pilot dishing out those same scabby homilies.

Spirit's airplanes probably cost about $5,000./hr to operate. A healthy raise would probably increase their hourly costs by about 1%. Pilot costs have very little to do with profitability, but they have A LOT to do with executive bonuses.

Pilots are fighting management for the same piece of pie. Either we get it, or they get it. It's NOT going to the bank, the passengers, or the shareholders.

Why don't you do the right thing and retire already? Give your other pilots a chance to move up, and to have a CP with more reasonable expectations.

Ty, long time no hear, good to make contact again. How are the wife and kids? CP? Never happened that I know to me DA20 stds forever baby. BTW I am only being open about a fear of the negative results of employee action, sharing my thoughts with fellow pilots, much like the first mate in the Titanic saying "Captain there might be icebergs out there, we should slow down”. But I know saying anything except "Lets go on Strike" on this board is greeted with contempt. Only time will tell what will be the best course of action. I wish no one any ill will and hope everything works out.

 

[Mike man]

Spirit at best is a marginal airline...

From the guy who works at USA Jet? Isn't that kind of like the old broken down rusted pot with holes in calling the kettle black?