If Warren sells NJA, is that a good thing?

[Helmsalee]

G4, you are not our friend. We are trying to help you understand but it falls on deaf ears.

 

[flexpilot]

Scabbing

Yes being a SCAB will hurt relationships. Growing up my parents worked in the rust belt. Unionism was very strong. I wouldn't describe my parents of hard core unionism, but they would have never crossed a picket line.

Ann Landers had a column in our local paper (remember those?) and gave personal advice. I remember one lady wrote in and asked what to do about a relationship affected by a strike and her husband crossing the picket line.

Several RSVP's for her kids birthday party were returned with the following annotation declining to attend the event:

Sorry
Cannot
Attend
Birthday Party

Yes, when you decide to scab, it's not just you, it's you, your wife and your family.

Like someone said earlier, management speaks with one voice, the union needs to speak with one voice. If you decide to cross the line and join management, you just became the enemy......... a SCAB!

 

[G4dude]

What you don't get this isn't a argument that you are disagreeing with friends Your crossing a picket line to fly struck work and step on the necks of those of us that are fighting for a better contract.

You can make up any excuse you want but you cross a union picket line you will have no friends. You are putting your own needs ahead of your fellow pilots and their families. I don't need friends like that and you come between me and my family.

Excuses excuses. You don't want to be in a union either leave or be a fees payer. It all comes back to you wanting your cake and eat it too.

What nonsense, but predictable coming from you.

 

[G4dude]

Yes being a SCAB will hurt relationships. Growing up my parents worked in the rust belt. Unionism was very strong. I wouldn't describe my parents of hard core unionism, but they would have never crossed a picket line.

Ann Landers had a column in our local paper (remember those?) and gave personal advice. I remember one lady wrote in and asked what to do about a relationship affected by a strike and her husband crossing the picket line.

Several RSVP's for her kids birthday party were returned with the following annotation declining to attend the event:

Sorry
Cannot
Attend
Birthday Party

Yes, when you decide to scab, it's not just you, it's you, your wife and your family.

Like someone said earlier, management speaks with one voice, the union needs to speak with one voice. If you decide to cross the line and join management, you just became the enemy......... a SCAB!

Any friends of mine who mistreats me if I cross are friends I never needed, and shame on them. I will find out who my true friends are, I guess, and am fine with that. I would never mistreat anyone who strikes, even though I would strongly oppose them doing so, for jeapardizing my employer's survival and imperilling my job.. Funny how you hooligans don't even see the irony.

 

[Diesel]

Any friends of mine who mistreats me if I cross are friends I never needed, and shame on them. I will find out who my true friends are, I guess, and am fine with that. I would never mistreat anyone who strikes, even though I would strongly oppose them doing so, for jeapardizing my employer's survival and imperilling my job.. Funny how you hooligans don't even see the irony.

You will have no friends if you scab. Well other than those scabs who cross with you.

Why don't you just get some balls and actually say you will scab. You've danced around and around it.

At least be a man and admit you'll be a scab. At least you will have been honest with yourself before everyone turns their backs on you for the rest of your career.

 

[G4dude]

You will have no friends if you scab. Well other than those scabs who cross with you.

Why don't you just get some balls and actually say you will scab. You've danced around and around it.

At least be a man and admit you'll be a scab. At least you will have been honest with yourself before everyone turns their backs on you for the rest of your career.

If the contract is a bad one, and I believe the strike will not permanently damage the company, I WILL strike. I think a strike will be short and successful because of the pilot shortage. And we will laugh at all this anger on the message boards. What's funny is, if you, the doughty Diesel, flew with me, I would be the PIC. I would carefully avoid discussing union issues with you because I want my crew members to have a good time. I would want you to enjoy the tour. I hate conflict and just want everybody to be happy and have long successful careers, avoiding what happened to me so many times, namely losing jobs. How's that for honesty? If any of these conversations have sounded personal, I am truly sorry. We disagree with what is the right thing to do, but we want the same things. A good secure enjoyable career.

 

[Diesel]

If the contract is a bad one, and I believe the strike will not permanently damage the company, I WILL strike. I think a strike will be short and successful because of the pilot shortage. And we will laugh at all this anger on the message boards. What's funny is, if you, the doughty Diesel, flew with me, I would be the PIC. I would carefully avoid discussing union issues with you because I want my crew members to have a good time. I would want you to enjoy the tour. I hate conflict and just want everybody to be happy and have long successful careers, avoiding what happened to me so many times, namely losing jobs. How's that for honesty? If any of these conversations have sounded personal, I am truly sorry. We disagree with what is the right thing to do, but we want the same things. A good secure enjoyable career.

So before you were going to be a scab and now you will strike. I'm not sure if you're bi polar or just haven't decided which way the wind blows. You wish happy and peace for everyone? Kumbayahh.

Your avoidance of conflict is what creates a mediocre career and gives the company the ability to take advantage of it. Do you also avoid conflict when having to write a plane up? Do you avoid it when you're exhausted but don't want to create conflict by calling in fatigued?

Sometimes you have to make a stand. I believe your change of heart is to avoid conflict. You have 4 threads going and everywhere you turn people are telling you are wrong. You've looked back and realized you have no basis for any of your arguments.

Maybe these threads did you some good but I have a feeling you're just following the path of least resistance. Will you be in Omaha? Will you be supporting your fellow pilots by donating hotel or airline miles?

You want to avoid a strike? Support your union. Support your fellow pilots. Fly the contract.

 

[G4dude]

So before you were going to be a scab and now you will strike. I'm not sure if you're bi polar or just haven't decided which way the wind blows. You wish happy and peace for everyone? Kumbayahh.

Your avoidance of conflict is what creates a mediocre career and gives the company the ability to take advantage of it. Do you also avoid conflict when having to write a plane up? Do you avoid it when you're exhausted but don't want to create conflict by calling in fatigued?

Sometimes you have to make a stand. I believe your change of heart is to avoid conflict. You have 4 threads going and everywhere you turn people are telling you are wrong. You've looked back and realized you have no basis for any of your arguments.

Maybe these threads did you some good but I have a feeling you're just following the path of least resistance. Will you be in Omaha? Will you be supporting your fellow pilots by donating hotel or airline miles?

You want to avoid a strike? Support your union. Support your fellow pilots. Fly the contract.

I am not actively supporting the union, for I don't like unions and believe it is making some mistakes and is entirely too bellicose. I do pay dues and will support a strike if the contract offer is not good enough. I probably won't support a strike if the contract offer is reasonable. Hope that clears it up for you. My movement has been a little in your direction since I joined this site.

 

[Diesel]

I am not actively supporting the union, for I don't like unions and believe it is making some mistakes and is entirely too bellicose. I do pay dues and will support a strike if the contract offer is not good enough. I probably won't support a strike if the contract offer is reasonable. Hope that clears it up for you. My movement has been a little in your direction since I joined this site.

There is a lot of I in the above statement.

If you don't support the union why don't you just become a fees payer? Why wouldn't you want to just do that? Then you wouldn't have to be associated with the nasty union.

 

[G4dude]

So before you were going to be a scab and now you will strike. I'm not sure if you're bi polar or just haven't decided which way the wind blows. You wish happy and peace for everyone? Kumbayahh.

Your avoidance of conflict is what creates a mediocre career and gives the company the ability to take advantage of it. Do you also avoid conflict when having to write a plane up? Do you avoid it when you're exhausted but don't want to create conflict by calling in fatigued?

Sometimes you have to make a stand. I believe your change of heart is to avoid conflict. You have 4 threads going and everywhere you turn people are telling you are wrong. You've looked back and realized you have no basis for any of your arguments.

Maybe these threads did you some good but I have a feeling you're just following the path of least resistance. Will you be in Omaha? Will you be supporting your fellow pilots by donating hotel or airline miles?

You want to avoid a strike? Support your union. Support your fellow pilots. Fly the contract.

If my change of heart is because I want to avoid conflict, isn't that what you want? For people like me intimidated into doing what you want?

 

[Diesel]

If my change of heart is because I want to avoid conflict, isn't that what you want? For people like me intimidated into doing what you want?

I don't care what you do. You SCAB your choice.

Life is about decisions and consequences.

Drive drunk for all I care. Just be prepared to pay the price.

SCAB and be prepared for those consequences too.

 

[G4dude]

There is a lot of I in the above statement.

If you don't support the union why don't you just become a fees payer? Why wouldn't you want to just do that? Then you wouldn't have to be associated with the nasty union.

That is a very fair question. I don't like conflict, maybe, although paying dues wouldn't cause any. I guess I pay dues because if the union works hard for us, which it manifestly does, I should be a member. In house unions seem to do a good job overall. I just disagree with the couple of things going on now and the coercion.

 

[G4dude]

I don't care what you do. You SCAB your choice.

Life is about decisions and consequences.

Drive drunk for all I care. Just be prepared to pay the price.

SCAB and be prepared for those consequences too.

I showed this post to my wife and she guffawed. You care intensely what I do, are determined to intimidate me into doing what you want, and even are desirous that if I do what you want, it must be for reasons of which YOU approve.

 

[Diesel]

That is a very fair question. I don't like conflict, maybe, although paying dues wouldn't cause any. I guess I pay dues because if the union works hard for us, which it manifestly does, I should be a member. In house unions seem to do a good job overall. I just disagree with the couple of things going on now and the coercion.

Again you don't like conflict and are willing to accept less because of it. Got it.

What happens when you have conflict for a writeup?
What happens when you have conflict due to a contract issue?
What happens when you have conflict due to fatigue?

I hope your avoidance of conflict doesn't put anyone at risk.

 

[Diesel]

I showed this post to my wife and she guffawed. You care intensely what I do, are determined to intimidate me into doing what you want, and even are desirous that if I do what you want, it must be for reasons of which YOU approve.

Wow your wife read a message board.

We are trying to help you see the light and not make a career mistake.

Please enlighten us with her contract experience too.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Bud, what you continue to erroneously call "coercion," most would call solidarity and unity of purpose.

As you well know, I'm no great fan of many aspects of our union. Most notably past leadership's tone deafness and hubris.

Nevertheless, I believe the current leadership to be on the right path and our current President is striking exactly the right balance of professionalism and aggressiveness. Once again I suggest you honestly reassess your mindset on a whole host of these issues.

 

[G4dude]

Again you don't like conflict and are willing to accept less because of it. Got it.

What happens when you have conflict for a writeup?
What happens when you have conflict due to a contract issue?
What happens when you have conflict due to fatigue?

I hope your avoidance of conflict doesn't put anyone at risk.

I haven't had any issues with those things, and haven't heard of them from anybody I have flown with, so I'm not sure the stories are true. Maybe they are. Gutshotdraw has strong opinions on this, maybe he will email me on the iPhone with them. I believe him.

 

[G4dude]

Bud, what you continue to erroneously call "coercion," most would call solidarity and unity of purpose.

As you well know, I'm no great fan of many aspects of our union. Most notably past leadership's tone deafness and hubris.

Nevertheless, I believe the current leadership to be on the right path and our current President is striking exactly the right balance of professionalism and aggressiveness. Once again I suggest you honestly reassess your mindset on a whole host of these issues.

I am, that is mainly why I'm on this site. And for the flattering remarks from Brokeflyer and Helmsalee.

 

[Helmsalee]

G4, I am not trying to insult you. I just have a hard time accepting that you really are that naive.
Helm

 

[G4dude]

G4, I am not trying to insult you. I just have a hard time accepting that you really are that naive.
Helm

I was raised in an anti union household, and spent my entire career in non union shops, even my nonpilot jobs. The union stories I was told as I grew older were bad ones from former union members from Pan Am, Eastern, a Railroad Union, and a worker in a factory in the Midwest. Given all that, it would be surprising if I had turned out pro union. You and I see the same issues, but have different solutions. We want the same things. I'm just not willing, with all due respect, to try to coerce anyone into doing what I want them to do. Union people are not like that, and I think it is a shame.