If Delta were to hire...

[ACL65PILOT]

Keep giving flying away and it will be. Keep selling it and you will eventually not be able to our run it.

Give 100 seat flying away and you can kiss everything below a 757 good bye. Even the most selfish pilot see that.

Every person I talk to will not sell scope, but recapturing it to forgo pay is another story.

 

[FBN0223]

The only way to have a shot at recapturing scope and prevent further scope erosion is to have Delta and other majors represented by a union that does not represent the regionals. It's unfortunate and quite amazing that we even have JUNIOR pilots that will continue to beat the ALPA drum thinking that some sort of revelation has passed and that the "taking it back" torch has been lit. Our Delta PWA was a golden opportunity to take back the 76 flying, however, ALPA sold pay raises and better work rules, and pay raises and better work rules overwhelmingly won. Keep in mind, all this happened AFTER Prater's proclamation that "we're taking it back." Perhaps, we should define WHAT we are "taking back" and for whom.

 

[LandGreen]

Remains to be seen. The trend has been the exact opposite. Delta will want more scope relief and WILL provide some grand incentives to see their plans comes to fruition. How will they do this? Money. You can expect to see Delta's opener to include all 100 seat flying with pay increases, more vacation, improvements to retirement, and so on.

Scope is an issue for all, but not the number one issue for many as it is for those of on the bottom half of the seniority list.

I don't see that happening this time. The wide body mafia at Delta is no longer a majority. Most people flying at Delta know that INCREDIBLE PAY RATES can appear and DISAPPEAR overnight. RJ's don't follow the same trend...they appear but don't disappear. We would be very unwise to allow ANY scope concessions...not to mention 100 seaters!

 

[FlyinPiker]

I don't see that happening this time. The wide body mafia at Delta is no longer a majority. Most people flying at Delta know that INCREDIBLE PAY RATES can appear and DISAPPEAR overnight. RJ's don't follow the same trend...they appear but don't disappear. We would be very unwise to allow ANY scope concessions...not to mention 100 seaters!

Exactly...we all have something to lose. Guys mid to upper seniority would be throwing a crapload of "A" seats away with that move as well.

Your just beggin for more stagnation (for the list as a whole!) if one dismisses this flying.

 

[FBN0223]

I don't see that happening this time. The wide body mafia at Delta is no longer a majority. Most people flying at Delta know that INCREDIBLE PAY RATES can appear and DISAPPEAR overnight. RJ's don't follow the same trend...they appear but don't disappear. We would be very unwise to allow ANY scope concessions...not to mention 100 seaters!

I didn't see us giving away scope the last three times. Yet, we did. I remember telling my buddy, "There's no way our guys would vote for the establishment of an airline within an airline(aka newco)." Enter the ALPA spin machine and voila.....Compass!!!

At the very least, it would be nice to hear DALPA's stance on scope. That's right, there isn't one. They don't want to give away any of their negotiating secrets. We're taking what back for who again?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Actually, imo D-ALPA can do whatever they want, National would not be stupid enough not to sign their contract. We are free to negotiate what we want. That is the way ALPA is set up.

I know had to beleive, but it is.

I also agree that we could have recaptured more on the JPWA. I would have liked to see that. Going in to 2012, I will be very surprised to see any attempt at a recapture. Most refuse to sell any but they want their money too!

I would be happy with a line in the PWA that states that no DCI contracts will be renewed and no new contracts will be written.

 

[twobits]

Long of the short of it. Delta is not hiring. They won't be hiring this year. They likely won't hire next year. 2012 is a good option, just depends how they restructure the airline. DALPA should take back RJ hiring, but give preferential hiring to ALPA brethren that Delta pilots are displacing (ASA, Compass, Comair, etc...). I know GL will say no way to Comair, but..... Comair pilots went on strike for 89 days to protect their contract. why would you not want somebody with balls like that as a fellow striker one day? .... and if you want everything that you have had taken away, that will be the only way forward. Remember, no matter how good you think employee relations are now, that you are still working for an airline.... and an airline run by NW management (remember their mechanics?).

Delta is getting smaller, and for pilots that only matters if retirements do not occur; which they will in due course. Prices will go up, available seats will remain the same or go down, and at the same time bigger planes will replace smaller planes (MD-90 over DC-9). Industry power at play. The truth hurts sometimes, but at least if you believe they are not hiring anytime soon that you do not have to live in a world of illusion.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Pref hiring for Comair. :laugh: If there's anything that could ever cause Delta pilots to revolt -- that would be it.

 

[LandGreen]

I didn't see us giving away scope the last three times. Yet, we did. I remember telling my buddy, "There's no way our guys would vote for the establishment of an airline within an airline(aka newco)." Enter the ALPA spin machine and voila.....Compass!!!

At the very least, it would be nice to hear DALPA's stance on scope. That's right, there isn't one. They don't want to give away any of their negotiating secrets. We're taking what back for who again?

IMO...assuming we are not facing another bankruptcy (knock on wood) i really don't see giving an inch on scope. when people are moving up in categories at a quick pace...watch out! scope will be less visible on the radar when folks are upgrading. now with the merger...you see 10+ yr FO's on reserve...CA's moving backwards in category; having to fly weekends and holidays they never before had to do...if the company is smart enough, and the pilots dumb enough to bite off on the "pay" carrot..then they deserve the multi million dollar bonuses and we deserve what we get!

 

[Max Powers]

Oil today at $87 / barrel (again).....$4.00/ gal at the pump expected within the next few months (again).

Good Luck.

YKW

Drill baby drill....Oh wait that is what we are doing and you mean it's not working???? Hmmmmm.. maybe we can be more efficient and decrease the need for fuel. HOW??

We need an automotive gas tax just like Europe! Imagine 6 dollar a gallon gas. People would actually drive sensible cars and the actual price of crude would plummet due to decreased demand from USA. Airlines which are mass transport would not have the same tax and would not only have cheap gas but lots of customers clamoring for a seat due to the expense of driving and the desire to get out of their Smart cars.

Oh wait Fox news, tea beggars, the oil industry and any other anti-govt entity doesn't want this so no luck on this common sense solution.

By the way have you ever noticed every tea "beggar" is most likely and unemployed old white male who is sucking off the nipple of the govt.

 

[Max Powers]

Crap what was the main thread started as?

 

[twobits]

If Burger King were to hire......

 

[General Lee]

Long of the short of it. Delta is not hiring. They won't be hiring this year. They likely won't hire next year. 2012 is a good option, just depends how they restructure the airline. DALPA should take back RJ hiring, but give preferential hiring to ALPA brethren that Delta pilots are displacing (ASA, Compass, Comair, etc...). I know GL will say no way to Comair, but..... Comair pilots went on strike for 89 days to protect their contract. why would you not want somebody with balls like that as a fellow striker one day? .... and if you want everything that you have had taken away, that will be the only way forward. Remember, no matter how good you think employee relations are now, that you are still working for an airline.... and an airline run by NW management (remember their mechanics?).

Delta is getting smaller, and for pilots that only matters if retirements do not occur; which they will in due course. Prices will go up, available seats will remain the same or go down, and at the same time bigger planes will replace smaller planes (MD-90 over DC-9). Industry power at play. The truth hurts sometimes, but at least if you believe they are not hiring anytime soon that you do not have to live in a world of illusion.

Big NO for Comair. I don't know any DL-S pilot that would vote for allowing a pref hiring for them. Maybe ASA since they did help our furloughed pilots after 9-11, but not Comair. I don't know how that would work with SkyWest owning them now, but it looks like CPZ and Mesaba are the main options now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JAM-BRO]

I see a lot of Green Slips this summer...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

A lot is an understatement. That is how they plan to operate the sked. Now add in IROPS and everyone will be getting em.

 

[jonjuan]

A lot is an understatement. That is how they plan to operate the sked. Now add in IROPS and everyone will be getting em.

Why not say no and force 'em to hire asap?

 

[Truckdriver]

We need an automotive gas tax just like Europe! Imagine 6 dollar a gallon gas. People would actually drive sensible cars and the actual price of crude would plummet due to decreased demand from USA. Airlines which are mass transport would not have the same tax and would not only have cheap gas but lots of customers clamoring for a seat due to the expense of driving and the desire to get out of their Smart cars.

Yeah, good idea. Then every middle class American can have less money to buy food and provide for their families. I agree that something needs to be done, but having middle class working Americans pay to move America into a non-carbon based economy is not the right course of action. The best short term solution is to convert to CNG cars. Costs are minimal compared to running out and buying a new hybrid car, CNG is affordable for middle class Americans, and we have a vast supply here in the U.S. to get us down the road to the Hydrogen economy. Sorry for contributing to the thread drift here, just not a fan of doubling the costs of getting to work for those of us who work.

 

[Linedriver]

Why not say no and force 'em to hire asap?

Why would you want to do that? Seriously.

It would be to our detriment for Delta to hire - they are staffed for the summers and keep the surplus during the rest of the year. Enjoy the extra pay then enjoy the time at home.

I would agree with you if there were furloughs still out there but that isn't the case.

Green-slip good; furlough bad.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Why not say no and force 'em to hire asap?

I will let you use your deductive reasoning on that one.

The 49ers mean anything to ya?

 

[asadonkey]

Drill baby drill....Oh wait that is what we are doing and you mean it's not working???? Hmmmmm.. maybe we can be more efficient and decrease the need for fuel. HOW??

We need an automotive gas tax just like Europe! Imagine 6 dollar a gallon gas. People would actually drive sensible cars and the actual price of crude would plummet due to decreased demand from USA. Airlines which are mass transport would not have the same tax and would not only have cheap gas but lots of customers clamoring for a seat due to the expense of driving and the desire to get out of their Smart cars.

Oh wait Fox news, tea beggars, the oil industry and any other anti-govt entity doesn't want this so no luck on this common sense solution.

By the way have you ever noticed every tea "beggar" is most likely and unemployed old white male who is sucking off the nipple of the govt.

Sigh...here is a socialist moron that can solve the worlds problems without any regard to the free market economics that allowed capitalism to provide wealth and opportunity to hundreds of millions of folks.
Let me ask you..."what is a sensible car?" (his quote) Hitlers VW Bug?
It blows my mind how quickly people will line up like sheep to follow a socialist directive that has killed and repressed hundreds of millions of people. Hey buddy...... It will work this time... lol
maybe time to look deeper into your own party, obama and your boys will not lead you to the promise land, but history tells you will line up and march for sure..... off the cliff Mr. Lenin

By the way fool, remember the "war for oil" Iraq BS conspiricy that got you on CNN? I am ready to assume power and take the oil HOOK ME UP