If Delta were to hire...

[ACL65PILOT]

I think that there may be another city better served than MEM for that type of hub. That said, anything is possible and they are not painting themselves in a corner. RJ expansion the the last move in the HUB playbook for DAL though.

 

[twobits]

funny stuff.... if Delta were to hire, haha. Nobody pays attention to history - it always repeats itself! The 747-200's just left, the DC-9's are leaving... ALL of them by the end of next year (unconfirmed, but highly likely) - I mean, you can't just take that many pilots off of one airplane and train them. Some of these planes will be replaced by other types (RJ's). A hub will virtually close, another hub might completely close. Oil goes higher, management will use that to reduce flying frequencies and press DALPA for more bigger RJ's. SOS, think about it. ACL also said that JAL was a done deal, so how much does he know? Mgt. thinks pilots are stupid, they will never tell us the truth.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Two, those were the words used, then everyone got really quite. I would say that you will see something in regards to JAL in the next two years.

As for the DC-9 They will park all of em if they can find MD-90's to replace em. Duh. Simple fact is that if oil goes north of 130 you are correct, they will be parked. They are a throw away jet.

As for more RJ's sure with mainline pilots in them.

 

[maxcackel]

Two, those were the words used, then everyone got really quite. I would say that you will see something in regards to JAL in the next two years.

As for the DC-9 They will park all of em if they can find MD-90's to replace em. Duh. Simple fact is that if oil goes north of 130 you are correct, they will be parked. They are a throw away jet.

As for more RJ's sure with mainline pilots in them.

Please make that happen!! Is there talk over there to bring domestic flying back to that side of the house? It would be nice to see the 90 seat and up regional planes with mainline pilots in them. If scope is relaxed anymore the system will be broken forever.

 

[FBN0223]

As for more RJ's sure with mainline pilots in them.

Remains to be seen. The trend has been the exact opposite. Delta will want more scope relief and WILL provide some grand incentives to see their plans comes to fruition. How will they do this? Money. You can expect to see Delta's opener to include all 100 seat flying with pay increases, more vacation, improvements to retirement, and so on.

Scope is an issue for all, but not the number one issue for many as it is for those of on the bottom half of the seniority list.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Keep giving flying away and it will be. Keep selling it and you will eventually not be able to our run it.

Give 100 seat flying away and you can kiss everything below a 757 good bye. Even the most selfish pilot see that.

Every person I talk to will not sell scope, but recapturing it to forgo pay is another story.

 

[FBN0223]

The only way to have a shot at recapturing scope and prevent further scope erosion is to have Delta and other majors represented by a union that does not represent the regionals. It's unfortunate and quite amazing that we even have JUNIOR pilots that will continue to beat the ALPA drum thinking that some sort of revelation has passed and that the "taking it back" torch has been lit. Our Delta PWA was a golden opportunity to take back the 76 flying, however, ALPA sold pay raises and better work rules, and pay raises and better work rules overwhelmingly won. Keep in mind, all this happened AFTER Prater's proclamation that "we're taking it back." Perhaps, we should define WHAT we are "taking back" and for whom.

 

[LandGreen]

Remains to be seen. The trend has been the exact opposite. Delta will want more scope relief and WILL provide some grand incentives to see their plans comes to fruition. How will they do this? Money. You can expect to see Delta's opener to include all 100 seat flying with pay increases, more vacation, improvements to retirement, and so on.

Scope is an issue for all, but not the number one issue for many as it is for those of on the bottom half of the seniority list.

I don't see that happening this time. The wide body mafia at Delta is no longer a majority. Most people flying at Delta know that INCREDIBLE PAY RATES can appear and DISAPPEAR overnight. RJ's don't follow the same trend...they appear but don't disappear. We would be very unwise to allow ANY scope concessions...not to mention 100 seaters!

 

[FlyinPiker]

I don't see that happening this time. The wide body mafia at Delta is no longer a majority. Most people flying at Delta know that INCREDIBLE PAY RATES can appear and DISAPPEAR overnight. RJ's don't follow the same trend...they appear but don't disappear. We would be very unwise to allow ANY scope concessions...not to mention 100 seaters!

Exactly...we all have something to lose. Guys mid to upper seniority would be throwing a crapload of "A" seats away with that move as well.

Your just beggin for more stagnation (for the list as a whole!) if one dismisses this flying.

 

[FBN0223]

I don't see that happening this time. The wide body mafia at Delta is no longer a majority. Most people flying at Delta know that INCREDIBLE PAY RATES can appear and DISAPPEAR overnight. RJ's don't follow the same trend...they appear but don't disappear. We would be very unwise to allow ANY scope concessions...not to mention 100 seaters!

I didn't see us giving away scope the last three times. Yet, we did. I remember telling my buddy, "There's no way our guys would vote for the establishment of an airline within an airline(aka newco)." Enter the ALPA spin machine and voila.....Compass!!!

At the very least, it would be nice to hear DALPA's stance on scope. That's right, there isn't one. They don't want to give away any of their negotiating secrets. We're taking what back for who again?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Actually, imo D-ALPA can do whatever they want, National would not be stupid enough not to sign their contract. We are free to negotiate what we want. That is the way ALPA is set up.

I know had to beleive, but it is.

I also agree that we could have recaptured more on the JPWA. I would have liked to see that. Going in to 2012, I will be very surprised to see any attempt at a recapture. Most refuse to sell any but they want their money too!

I would be happy with a line in the PWA that states that no DCI contracts will be renewed and no new contracts will be written.

 

[twobits]

Long of the short of it. Delta is not hiring. They won't be hiring this year. They likely won't hire next year. 2012 is a good option, just depends how they restructure the airline. DALPA should take back RJ hiring, but give preferential hiring to ALPA brethren that Delta pilots are displacing (ASA, Compass, Comair, etc...). I know GL will say no way to Comair, but..... Comair pilots went on strike for 89 days to protect their contract. why would you not want somebody with balls like that as a fellow striker one day? .... and if you want everything that you have had taken away, that will be the only way forward. Remember, no matter how good you think employee relations are now, that you are still working for an airline.... and an airline run by NW management (remember their mechanics?).

Delta is getting smaller, and for pilots that only matters if retirements do not occur; which they will in due course. Prices will go up, available seats will remain the same or go down, and at the same time bigger planes will replace smaller planes (MD-90 over DC-9). Industry power at play. The truth hurts sometimes, but at least if you believe they are not hiring anytime soon that you do not have to live in a world of illusion.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Pref hiring for Comair. :laugh: If there's anything that could ever cause Delta pilots to revolt -- that would be it.

 

[LandGreen]

I didn't see us giving away scope the last three times. Yet, we did. I remember telling my buddy, "There's no way our guys would vote for the establishment of an airline within an airline(aka newco)." Enter the ALPA spin machine and voila.....Compass!!!

At the very least, it would be nice to hear DALPA's stance on scope. That's right, there isn't one. They don't want to give away any of their negotiating secrets. We're taking what back for who again?

IMO...assuming we are not facing another bankruptcy (knock on wood) i really don't see giving an inch on scope. when people are moving up in categories at a quick pace...watch out! scope will be less visible on the radar when folks are upgrading. now with the merger...you see 10+ yr FO's on reserve...CA's moving backwards in category; having to fly weekends and holidays they never before had to do...if the company is smart enough, and the pilots dumb enough to bite off on the "pay" carrot..then they deserve the multi million dollar bonuses and we deserve what we get!

 

[Max Powers]

Oil today at $87 / barrel (again).....$4.00/ gal at the pump expected within the next few months (again).

Good Luck.

YKW

Drill baby drill....Oh wait that is what we are doing and you mean it's not working???? Hmmmmm.. maybe we can be more efficient and decrease the need for fuel. HOW??

We need an automotive gas tax just like Europe! Imagine 6 dollar a gallon gas. People would actually drive sensible cars and the actual price of crude would plummet due to decreased demand from USA. Airlines which are mass transport would not have the same tax and would not only have cheap gas but lots of customers clamoring for a seat due to the expense of driving and the desire to get out of their Smart cars.

Oh wait Fox news, tea beggars, the oil industry and any other anti-govt entity doesn't want this so no luck on this common sense solution.

By the way have you ever noticed every tea "beggar" is most likely and unemployed old white male who is sucking off the nipple of the govt.