Icing no Problem for Aeroflot

[densoo]

Sec. 121.629 — Operation in icing conditions.

(a).........................................


(b) No person may take off an aircraft when frost, ice, or snow is adhering to the wings, ............................

That argument could be made. If you look at the video you can see that they cleared a portion of the wing to see if it was adhering.

It may not be adhering to one part of the wing, but could be adhering to another. You won't know unless you clear the whole wing on the ground, or just takeoff to see if it clears. If it doesn't, well, too late.

 

[densoo]

The greatest value to me of this video is to once again be reminded that passengers simply and widely ignore the FAs' request to turn off all electronic devices. If someone doesn't want to get deiced/anti-iced properly because it is required, then knowing that failure to do so is likely to end up on YouTube, easily traced to a specific flight given a motivated fed's resources, and certificate action, might keep us "clean."

 

[lowtimedriver]

Nice 4 minute takeoff role.....:nuts:

 

[flythere]

Sec. 121.629 — Operation in icing conditions.

(a).........................................


(b) No person may take off an aircraft when frost, ice, or snow is adhering to the wings, ............................


That argument could be made. If you look at the video you can see that they cleared a portion of the wing to see if it was adhering. Gravity is not the same as adhering.

We in the US, live in the world of the lawyers. Unfortunately. Before the glass viewing, button pushing, ipod wearing, back pack crowd jumps on me for being an idiot, tell me when the last air carrier accident was due to snow sitting on the wing.

Do not go with Air Florida. That had nothing to do with ice on the wings. They produced lift and flew. NTSB.gov. Learn something. I will give you a clue. EPR.

Don't get me wrong, I follow the same lawyer rules you all do and waste tons of deicing and anti icing fluid a year. Just don't be so quick to judge from afar, when the proof in in the pudding. It flew. The miracle is not because it had snow sitting on top of the wing, the miracle is that it is an airbus and it flew.

I hope I never fly with you! I had a friend that was killed in the Arrow charter crash back in 1985! With so much research out there, why chance it? Lets face it Aeroflot as much of Russian aviation has a terrible safety record, I've been to that part of the world, the airport and navaid systems are out of date and in most cases don't even work!

Runways with giant pot holes, terminal buildings falling apart and on and on! Safety is not of concern for them! It's just a different culture!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Air_Flight_1285

 

[BeachBummer]

Let's see:

1) Get De-Iced (especially when everyone else is.) Possibly, occasionally waste a few thousand dollars of fluid that will not come out of my pocket. Make my passengers feel safer and help me sleep that night without worrying about being on YouTube. Or

2) Be a Maverick and risk you ticket.

Risk vs reward.

Yea #2... you left out the whole death and fireball thing. Ever see snow burn?

 

[tankerhead]

Ha, tell that to a check airman at my outfit that got hammered by the FED! Some MX clown was riding in the back, by the wing, there was a trace of frost on top of wing, not sure if it was wet or frozen, the bottom looked fine according to SOP.

Not good to confuse tops and bottoms. Could hurt real bad in places you didn't even know you had. Now what about this SOP business?

Scary freaking video, too.

 

[Wasted]

What does 121.629 have anything to do with those guys?

 

[Mamma]

Unbelievable that some of you defend this practice!!!

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/...-goes-viral-amid-air-safety-fears/456553.html

Unbelievable? Not really. Every organization has its retards and the piloting profession is no different. The sad thing is, the retards at Aeroflot rose to management level and support this.....

"Aeroflot denied that the flight had ever been in jeopardy.

"It's clear from the video that there were no violations," Aeroflot said in a Twitter message. "The snow was instantly blown away at the start of takeoff and therefore definitely didn't affect aerodynamics and safety. Safety is our top priority!"

Aeroflot, which was responding to a Twitter user's tweet of the YouTube video, said its reply was made after consultations with two key officials — its director of air safety and its deputy head of operations.

But airline industry insiders expressed horror at the video and Aeroflot's response."

 

[landlover]

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/...-goes-viral-amid-air-safety-fears/456553.html

Unbelievable? Not really. Every organization has its retards and the piloting profession is no different. The sad thing is, the retards at Aeroflot rose to management level and support this.....

"Aeroflot denied that the flight had ever been in jeopardy.

"It's clear from the video that there were no violations," Aeroflot said in a Twitter message. "The snow was instantly blown away at the start of takeoff and therefore definitely didn't affect aerodynamics and safety. Safety is our top priority!"

Aeroflot, which was responding to a Twitter user's tweet of the YouTube video, said its reply was made after consultations with two key officials — its director of air safety and its deputy head of operations.

But airline industry insiders expressed horror at the video and Aeroflot's response."

Bad choice on not getting sprayed with Type1. At least management backed up their pilots, Not very common these days.

 

[waveflyer]

Delete double post

 

[waveflyer]

And of course air florida
Look guys- if you think this is about defining "adhere", you're nuts- i know that situation and agree that many pilots in the US deice unnecessarily. But this?- it took 150kts+ of airspeed to knock off the snow and ice and it still wasn't clean-
That was criminal and you should send this to all your family members- crazy dangerous- read: not 'didn't conform to policy' not 'didn't satisfy the stupid lawyers'
Pilot to pilots, that was life or death crazy stupid-
Wouldn't have survived the takeoff in MDW
Pilot to pilots, if you think this is safe or remotely ok- quit. You are that unsafe and the reason we have blanket policies the good pilots hate.

 

[Dornier 335]

Sec. 121.629 — Operation in icing conditions.

(a).........................................


(b) No person may take off an aircraft when frost, ice, or snow is adhering to the wings, ............................


That argument could be made. If you look at the video you can see that they cleared a portion of the wing to see if it was adhering. Gravity is not the same as adhering.

We in the US, live in the world of the lawyers. Unfortunately. Before the glass viewing, button pushing, ipod wearing, back pack crowd jumps on me for being an idiot, tell me when the last air carrier accident was due to snow sitting on the wing.

Do not go with Air Florida. That had nothing to do with ice on the wings. They produced lift and flew. NTSB.gov. Learn something. I will give you a clue. EPR.

Don't get me wrong, I follow the same lawyer rules you all do and waste tons of deicing and anti icing fluid a year. Just don't be so quick to judge from afar, when the proof in in the pudding. It flew. The miracle is not because it had snow sitting on top of the wing, the miracle is that it is an airbus and it flew.

You might get away with it (14 CFR 121.629), but the Feds will hang you with the famous "careless and reckless operation" of an aircraft. Not following SOPs, aircraft manufacturer etc.

BUT I'd really like to know what the Cyrillic comments say ...

 

[densoo]

At least management backed up their pilots, Not very common these days.

I think they were backing up their lawyers and the ministry of propaganda. Back to the cold war. Like denying they shot down KAL 007. Avoids lawsuits and bad press.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Lots of chatter in another web board that the company has launched an investigation in order to prosecute whomever posted this video for the illegal use of electronics during the take off. Nice!

 

[Northern Lights]

BUT I'd really like to know what the Cyrillic comments say ...

http://translate.google.com/

Copy and paste in to this and you will get a good enough idea.

A lot of the comments seem to be defending the actions.

кстати, у меня одного возник вопрос о том, почему все уверены, что это аэрофлотский самолет? Все дружно поверили автору видео? =

By the way, I have a question arose as to why everyone is convinced that this Aeroflotskaya plane? They all believe the author of the video?

 

[Dornier 335]

Lots of chatter in another web board that the company has launched an investigation in order to prosecute whomever posted this video for the illegal use of electronics during the take off. Nice!

I didn't even think about that! Classic!

 

[habubuaza]

Would love to hear SkyTeam's take on this....

 

[B1900 Mech]

All these idiots that defended this must be management.

 

[FR8mastr]

While that video is to the extreme, that does not change the fact that way to many of us run to get deiced when there is no need. A flurry and 39 degrees does not constitute ice adhering to the aircraft.

I believe if you need, it get it, as per the FAR's or other evidence that it needs to be done. At the same time... If it is not adhering, it's not adhering. Way too much monkey see monkey do.

 

[Andy]

Interesting thread. My only comment is that Global Warming can't happen fast enough for me. I can deal with 'too hot'. I'll just get naked - and that ain't pretty. And no judgment calls on performance data when it's 'too hot'.

It looks like they tried to rotate with no success about 30 seconds into takeoff run in video then accelerated some more for the second successful rotation.

Don't know the weights, but their takeoff run is about 15 seconds longer than other 320s on the videos.

Initial thrust to nose wheel off is about 45 seconds compared to 30 seconds with a clean Airbus on youtube.

From my perspective, it didn't look like power was pushed up until ~13 seconds into the video and rotation occurred at ~46 seconds. That's a 33 second takeoff run. Excessive? I don't know. I saw taxiways abeam the wing through 1:04.
Please look at the video again. At ~13 seconds, you can see the power pushed up and the snow blowing off of the wing. I don't understand your comment about a failed attempt to rotate at 30 seconds - I don't see it.