IBT 1108 Flex Union

[haulingthemail]

He flew the panel or the right seat at ATI and is now a Flexjet CL300 right seater. He is also clueless and unfortunately represents a large number just like him at Flex.

I am at Flex and proud to say it. I was at ATI in the right seat before the WONDERFUL TEAMSTERS couldn't get a contract ironed out. And at Eagle prior to that. So I've had my fair share of UNIONS and it's my right, opinion, and choice not to support, be apart of or send in a card for another. Just it's yours to want to be apart of one.

I enjoy the hell out of my job, maybe it's because I've worked hard in my last 16 years as a pilot and have seen how "good" a union can screw things up. So don't bash me for not wanting to be apart of one.

Fozzy, you can bash me, that's your choice, but leave my wife out of this! got it?!

 

[Ultra Grump]

There's a big difference in meaning between "apart" and "a part." Which is it?

 

[haulingthemail]

There's a big difference in meaning between "apart" and "a part." Which is it?

well if you can't figure it out then you need more help. So what I fat fingered the keys.... A PART

 

[doh]

I am at Flex and proud to say it. I was at ATI in the right seat before the WONDERFUL TEAMSTERS couldn't get a contract ironed out. And at Eagle prior to that. So I've had my fair share of UNIONS and it's my right, opinion, and choice not to support, be apart of or send in a card for another. Just it's yours to want to be apart of one.

I enjoy the hell out of my job, maybe it's because I've worked hard in my last 16 years as a pilot and have seen how "good" a union can screw things up. So don't bash me for not wanting to be apart of one.

Fozzy, you can bash me, that's your choice, but leave my wife out of this! got it?!

ATI and Eagle ?!?! OMFG! No wonder you want nothing to do with unions! You, my friend, have been FUSCHED six ways from Sunday!:uzi: And I am sure your wife is a nice lady.

 

[Ultra Grump]

well if you can't figure it out then you need more help. So what I fat fingered the keys.... A PART

Sorry, "typo" doesn't cut it. "Fat-fingering" the keys would imply you knew how to type it correctly but made a typing error. The error is between your ears in not knowing the difference between the two. When you are attempting to convey a thought in the written word, you might want to make an attempt to actually use the correct word. It makes it so much easier for the reader. The reader shouldn't have to "figure it out."

 

[doh]

Sorry, "typo" doesn't cut it. "Fat-fingering" the keys would imply you knew how to type it correctly but made a typing error. The error is between your ears in not knowing the difference between the two. When you are attempting to convey a thought in the written word, you might want to make an attempt to actually use the correct word. It makes it so much easier for the reader. The reader shouldn't have to "figure it out."

His is an orthographical error, not a typographical error. Now that we have that out of the way, I would like to know why it is so important for you to run hauling down for his mistakes? There are tons of orthos and typos made on this board every day, but you ignore the vast majority of those. Could it be that you are trying to shame him because you hope to silence his opinion? Say it ain't so! I have not seen you correct anyone who agrees with your opinion so I'm just curious...

 

[warlord19]

Re all you Flexjetters.I've been at Flex a long time, and don't spend much time here at this UNION WEBSITE. I live in a market economy, and my wages are set by the market..this year QS set the "market" standard. Flex will continue to come up with a market package every year, treat you well, and you save 1.5% of your BEFORE TAX wages.

 

[realityman]

warlord,

First off, congrats to all you Flex guys with the pay raise. It's a good thing for everyone.

Second, I could care less whether you, CS, or anyone else brings a union on property. If the majority of the pilots there don't want a union, you won't have one. End of story.

And finally, just out of curiosity, has Flex come up with a 'market package' every year up till now? Other than money, what was in this 'package' you speak of? I'm not putting down your raise at all. Really. I think it's great. And personally, I don't care if it was because of 1108, or an aligning of the planets, or your managers got lucky the night before and were feeling generous. No matter what, it's a good thing. But when you mention package, I'm just curious what else you got? And when you mentioned them coming up with something every year, I'm curious if this is a yearly thing, or have been promised it'll be a yearly thing?

By the way, it's great you aren't paying 1.5% of your salary towards a union. I just want to point out that you have admitted that NJA set the market bar this year (and did it back in 2005 too). Who do you think is responsible for that? Hint: It wasn't a generous NJA management. So considering where NJA has now placed the bar, I don't think you'll find but one in 100 pilots (at NJA) who thinks the 1.5% is a bad investment. It's like anything else, it's only a bad investment if you don't get a return on it. I gotta tell ya, my union dues were a bad investment prior to 1108. I don't feel that way anymore.

Oh, and my union dues are tax deductible, so in the end, I'm really only paying something like 1.2%. It's not a hardship.

Like I said, if you don't need or want a union, fine. It's no skin off my back. Just wanted you to know that it hasn't been a bad thing for us. Just wanted you to know in case you thought we were upset over the dues.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Reality,

In recent days, I've come to dislike pushing the "FlightInfo" button on my browser. I thought the battle was over, but it seems that it's gone Karen Carpenter. (It's "Only Just Begun." Get it???)

Thank you for your understanding of the non-union sentiment among an apparent majority of us at FJ. It was a very cogent observation of yours that what really matters is that the bar is raised in the Fractionals as a whole. Between the two of our groups (NJ/FJ), it's "Let the good times roll." At least in terms of money.

I'm not anti-union universally. I was more than ready to send my card in, but wanted to see what our Mgmt had to say. I guess I have to admit to being "bought off" by money, and retain the hope that we can make some of the the QOL improvements without the IBT. (The rest issues are do-able, but I doubt if we'll ever get a gateway list like yours.)

As for what role NJ played in this, I have a beef with you guys. What difference does it make if you guys, personally, each one of you, walked on water and demanded that our management give us a raise??? You're acting like insecure high school girls, and tarnishing the great reputation that you've built, at least in my mind. You're giving credence to the "misery loves company" pov that many have suggested.

Let the good times roll. Thank you guys for your help. Keep it coming. (If I can speak for us) we appreciate it.

 

[Fozzy]

I am at Flex and proud to say it. I was at ATI in the right seat before the WONDERFUL TEAMSTERS couldn't get a contract ironed out. And at Eagle prior to that. So I've had my fair share of UNIONS and it's my right, opinion, and choice not to support, be apart of or send in a card for another. Just it's yours to want to be apart of one.

I enjoy the hell out of my job, maybe it's because I've worked hard in my last 16 years as a pilot and have seen how "good" a union can screw things up. So don't bash me for not wanting to be apart of one.

Fozzy, you can bash me, that's your choice, but leave my wife out of this! got it?!

Okay calm down tough guy. I am sure your wife is Miss USA 2002. Hell, if it was not for my wife backing me up in my earlier years, well I just don't know.
After seeing what your prior Union experience is, I don't blame you for being gun shy.

I have done both Union and non Union. I will stick with 1108 or who ever we become.

Good luck. You may need it.

 

[Ultra Grump]

His is an orthographical error, not a typographical error. Now that we have that out of the way, I would like to know why it is so important for you to run hauling down for his mistakes? There are tons of orthos and typos made on this board every day, but you ignore the vast majority of those. Could it be that you are trying to shame him because you hope to silence his opinion? Say it ain't so! I have not seen you correct anyone who agrees with your opinion so I'm just curious...

Because he's an idiot. It's not about silencing his opinion. Have you heard of "the straw that broke the camel's back?" Someone else has already covered all the idiots that don't know the difference between "loose" and "lose." How about "there," "their," and "they're?" "Here" and "hear?" "To," "Too," and "Two?" "Insure" and "ensure?" Do you see where I'm going with this? Nobody has enough time to comment on all the lazy-asses that can somehow remember enough to get a type rating, but can't be bothered to remember simple spelling.

BTW, what opinion have I expressed about a union at Flex, anyway? I don't care if you unionize or not. Not my problem. And frankly, all the BS about 1108 only wanting you to join to collect your dues money is just that - BS. The NJA pilots are seriously considering leaving the Teamsters and going in-house, leaving not only your dues money with 1108, but also over a million dollars of our dues money with 1108 as well. How does that fit in with your money-grubbing theories?

 

[realityman]

Ed,

No worries. Do a search though, I think you'll find that I have NEVER made a post on this message board asking anyone to thank 1108 or myself or NJA for anything they've gotten.

Yes, I have asked people to realistically examine why the bar has gone up so much recently, but it's only been in response to posts that are trying to make it sound like 1108 is useless, ineffective, greedy, or corrupt. The last post from warlord made it sound like the dues were a bad investment, or some kind of hardship for the pilots. Maybe they would be for you guys. I was simply pointing out that they weren't for us.

Get a union. Don't get a union. Makes no difference to our pilots. And it shouldn't.

Some people like to point out the negatives of a union. I enjoy pointing out all the positives. But it's not to convince you or anyone else that you should have one. It's just to balance out the arguments with some facts of my own.

 

[warlord19]

realityman: you are one of the few posters here that seem to have some sense. If FJ needed a Union, I would be Agitating for one..it's simply not needed. If I had worked at that sh*thole Floptions outfit, I would have been agitating for one. But Bombardier is an "ongoing concern", and they meet market conditions EVERY year in order to hire and keep quality people. I've worked union and didn't like it, but when management is bad it's worth voting one in. If management were bad here, they would be REPLACED. The new, successful car companies in the south are all union free because these companies have "discovered" their employees are their best assets and treat them accordingly.

 

[doh]

Because he's an idiot. It's not about silencing his opinion. Have you heard of "the straw that broke the camel's back?" Someone else has already covered all the idiots that don't know the difference between "loose" and "lose." How about "there," "their," and "they're?" "Here" and "hear?" "To," "Too," and "Two?" "Insure" and "ensure?" Do you see where I'm going with this? Nobody has enough time to comment on all the lazy-asses that can somehow remember enough to get a type rating, but can't be bothered to remember simple spelling.

BTW, what opinion have I expressed about a union at Flex, anyway? I don't care if you unionize or not. Not my problem. And frankly, all the BS about 1108 only wanting you to join to collect your dues money is just that - BS. The NJA pilots are seriously considering leaving the Teamsters and going in-house, leaving not only your dues money with 1108, but also over a million dollars of our dues money with 1108 as well. How does that fit in with your money-grubbing theories?

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I have money grubbing theories. I tried to convey my experience with representational issues. Money was never the problem. Power and control while completely ignoring my best interests was the problem. And like I said, telling me to my face that my best interests would always be subborned to those of non members.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

warlord, what about all the QOL stuff? is that not important to you? sure they met industry standard cash, but is money all we care about?

QOL is important to me, so important that I want a union to help fix them.

how else do we fix QOL? seriously, what other option is there?

most importantly, how else do I get job protection?

 

[doh]

Alright, rolling rest is a hot button. What other QOL issues are there?

 

[warlord19]

Inigo: Here go's. QOL is different things to different people....my QOL is don't bounce pay checks, give me 10 hrs a day rest when on duty, stay at decent hotels, respect my abilities and limitations, and pay me market wages. These things happen at FJ. If you want to live anywhere in the US, you might have to work elsewhere, cause FJ opens bases where they make economic sense. As DOH says, rolling rest is the "hot button" topic today. And you KNOW if you work for FJ, it is almost a non-issue...it's only blown up in this forum 'cause someone somewhere got their schedule changed and is now pissed off at the world. I've been at FJ a long time, and it's simply a very minor issue and is going to be resolved pretty soon, but the solution will be worse than the problem(i'm afraid). Anyway, let the unionist attack this post with their overblown bile and "union is the only way" mentality...I don't care. And BTW, Inigo, JOB PROTECTION is an illusion. Unions don't make economic laws disappear...if (no, when) bad times come along, your "bro's" will be layed off just like our non-union bro's. Best advice..keep your resume updated, your skills updated, and have a backup skill you can use till things get better.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I moonlight as a porn star, so I'm set.

but still, I'd argue that a union provides more protection than not having one at all. I know it is not gonna keep my my job no matter what, but some is better than none. Surely you can agree with that right?

so let me put it to you this way then. the things that I'd like to be changed may not be important to you, like bases, but can't you still support your fellow pilots that want something changed? For example, the issue that has been raised by the ONT and FLL folks about getting duty time for all the driving they do when they have to report to some other airport besides ONT or FLL. Doesn't mean anything if you are Dallas based, but it would be nice if you still supported those trying to get the rule changed.

just saying, nothing will ever get done if we don't all work together. with or without a union. why cant we all work together and get some things changed? Why not say "yeah, we need some more bases" instead of "i'm happy, everything's fine."

I'm fine with the medical coverage, but so many other people are not, so I still write it down on the CAB surveys as something I'd liked changed.

 

[FastJP4]

The difference is because Indigo cares about what's best for the Flex pilot group as a whole - while the "Warlord" types only care about themselves. Pretty sad.