I want to someday get paid to fly. What do you think?

[UnAnswerd]

I'm new here, so please let me give you a brief overview of my situation:

I'm 20 years old, and have been working full-time as an auto-tech since graduating high-school. It's going okay, but I just don't find the work very fulfilling, nor do I feel a sense of pride when looking to the future. I have always had an interest in aviation, but never really gave it enough thought, let alone think about a possible career within this exciting area. Until now.

My situation is different from most people though. You see, I have bills to pay and obligations to meet. I cannot afford the time or the money to pursue aviation on a full-time basis, even though I would love to. I have taken the very first step, which is paying for ground-school, and by extension, lots of available information from aviation-acquainted people. I have a basic plan on how I can oneday get paid to fly. What I am asking you guys, is if my way of thinking is correct and if my intended goals are obtainable.

First, I am moreless ruling out anything with the airlines. As awesome as the airlines are, I see it as unobtainable for one major reason. I am not willing to get a 4-year degree in some related or unrelated area for the sole purpose of getting a Job, which years from now, I may already technically be able to fulfill. So the airlines are out.

Fortunately there are other types of aviation jobs out there. My goal is to oneday be involved with one of them! Here's my plan:

Work fulltime as an an auto-tech for years to come. Use the money I earn to pay for flight training. On a part-time basis, I feel I can get myself a private certificate, Instrument rating, multi-engine rating, commercial, and maybe even CFI within about 4 years if I keep at it. Plus I'll be building flight time whenever/however I can. So, if I am really serious, I can be well trained and legally employable by the time I'm 24. From there, even if it's low-pay, I can build time and earn money at the same time.

Not a very elaborate plan, but a plan nonetheless. So what do you guys think, and is this realistic???

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

 

[I.P. Freley]

It's absolutely realistic. Just make sure you have the bux to make it through all the ratings...

If you plan to keep up your "day job", it's going to be hard to build time after you have all your ratings, and you'll need that time to get the corporate/cargo job that I assume you're going to want in lieu of the airlines (and to be sure, you probably won't get hired at a major without one). I'm sure someone's done it, but to build that time you're probably going to have to teach, unless you can fall into some sort of night job.

It's realistic as long as you are prepared for the sacrifices involved... And you can keep up with the payments.

I know one guy, btw, who went from zero time to CFI in a single year. It can be done in far less than your four year plan, but then again, I think he did it pretty much full-time for that year and had some financial backing.

 

[acaTerry]

Flight Instruct man! You can be a PT mechanic when the dry spells of no flying are there. Instructing won't pay much, but it's got a lot of good sides if you can live on it.
BTW, there are "some" airlines (regionals) that do not require a degree, but who WANTS to spend a career at the regionals with the way things are today anyway?
There is also corporate, fractional, traffic,, banner tow, freight....the list is long. Good luck.

 

[Illini Pilot]

working for a corporate or charter type operation is definately reasonable. i heard a guy once talk about how he got his certs slowly while in a full time position in a totally different career. in his late thirties he fell into a corporate position with a major flt. dept. and is flying there now full time.

 

[MJG]

The 1200+ FO's at my airline have been waiting to get "paid" to fly for the last 5 years.....

 

[aviatornick]

its definetely possibly! i think you should try to at least fly 3 times a week. once you get your cfi, get to teachin. theres a lot of schools out there that are lookin for instructors unless you get lucky towing banners or something. theres always the military, which im not for, but its a thought. good luck!

 

[nosehair]

Look into the new "sport pilot" certificate. It is new, but I think it is the coming thing. You can get a sport pilot instructor certificat in 150 hours - and start getting *paid*to*fly!

 

[Goose Egg]

My situation is different from most people though. You see, I have bills to pay and obligations to meet.

How is that different than most people?

First, I am moreless ruling out anything with the airlines. As awesome as the airlines are, I see it as unobtainable for one major reason. I am not willing to get a 4-year degree in some related or unrelated area for the sole purpose of getting a Job, which years from now, I may already technically be able to fulfill. So the airlines are out.

Ouch! That hurts my ears. So let me get this straight; the only value you see in getting a four-year degree would be to fulfill some perfunctory job requirement? Very sad.

Fortunately there are other types of aviation jobs out there. My goal is to oneday be involved with one of them!

Well, I hate to break this to you, but your chances of getting any good job, flying or otherwise, are hurt by not having the degree. Sorry.

-Goose

 

[UnAnswerd]

Ouch! That hurts my ears. So let me get this straight; the only value you see in getting a four-year degree would be to fulfill some perfunctory job requirement?

To be totally honest, yes. And I would very much appreciate it if you could give me some insight on what some other reasons may be. Going to college costs time and money, and why waste those valuable assets if you can be qualified to perform a job without the degree???

Well, I hate to break this to you, but your chances of getting any good job, flying or otherwise, are hurt by not having the degree.

If it's possible to fly for a regional airline without a degree, are there not other areas of aviation that also don't require it?

 

[I.P. Freley]

This has been hashed to death on other threads, so I will keep it simple....

Having a four-year degree, or even a two-year degree, is not a requirement outside of the majors. Not having a degree will not keep you from getting a job at a regional, and probably not in many corporate jobs. However, not having that degree is a strike against you. Just hope that your other qualifications, your interview, and whatnot are enough to explain that hole in your resume.

 

[A Squared]

Well, I hate to break this to you, but your chances of getting any good job, flying or otherwise, are hurt by not having the degree. Sorry.

-Goose

Awwwww!!!geeezzz!!!! now you've done it. Now PilotYip is gonna hear that and now we're gonna have to put up with a couple of days of hin yapping on about how all the REALLY GOOD pilot jobs go to guys with no degrees, and how getting a degree is really the occupational equivelent of shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[UnAnswerd]

This has been hashed to death on other threads, so I will keep it simple....

Having a four-year degree, or even a two-year degree, is not a requirement outside of the majors. Not having a degree will not keep you from getting a job at a regional, and probably not in many corporate jobs. However, not having that degree is a strike against you. Just hope that your other qualifications, your interview, and whatnot are enough to explain that hole in your resume.

I appreciate that straight-forward information. It enables me to take the first steps into aviation, knowing that my efforts will not be in vain. I look forward to the years of training ahead of me, and somehow feel that eventually I will make what I consider to be a good living, without the degree.

 

[johnpeace]

You should read this thread

Specifically, this FANTASTIC post by Mar.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=354282&postcount=6

 

[Goose Egg]

...and somehow feel that eventually I will make what I consider to be a good living, without the degree.

Yeah, it is possible that you could make a good living without the degree, but if you want the odds in your favor, I'd get the degree. Just as I.P. said, if you are competing with someone who has the same amount and type of flight experience that you do, and he has a degree, and you do not, then he'll get the job. It's rough, but that's the way it works. Plus, the fewer holes in your resume to explain come interview time, the better. You don't seem to understand just how competetive it is out there.

But hey, do what you want; it's your life. It's just that I'm not doing you any favors by sugar-coating.

Oh, and regarding the benefits of a college education, other than employer requirements; Do you know who John Stuart Mill is? How about Adam Smith? What's the difference between retained earnings and owner's equity? Do you prefer Picasso over Dali? Do you agree with Skinner or Freud? Would you know how to type a business letter? What is an integral? How does photosynthesis occur? What is meant by geostrophic balance? What is the speed of light? What is the significance of the figure 9.8m/s^2? Where does Jupiter reside in the solar system? How does one copy a formula in MS Excel? What does ATP stand for (hint: the answer is not Airline Transport Pilot). What is DNA? What does DNA stand for? What is vapor pressure? How do I make a perfect fly-cast? What is a top-spin lob? Who is your favorite astronomer? (I kind of like Messier.) Is watercolor painting easier than oil? What is installation art? And I could go on.

I learned about all that stuff at college, and how to fly. A college education helps us understand the world we live in. If you can't see the value in that, then you don't deserve to have the knowledge in the first place.

So, if you just want to exist, continuing on in ignorance, then college is not for you. If you want to understand and enjoy life, college will help you on the way. Like that above linked-to post says, if you don't do your time, you won't be able to "fly yourself out of a paper bag." But instead of talking about flying, we are talking about life.

But hey, it's your life. Screw it if you want.

Goose

 

[miles otoole]

Go find a Southwest mechanic or two and ask them about the pay and quality of life. You might be surprised. You can be a pilot as a hobby as it certainly pays as such, especially in the formative years.

 

[JRSLim]

No money in Aviation?

there's no money in aviation!!!!!!!!!

Well then what happened to all that cash I gave my flight school !?

 

[bobbysamd]

Pilotyip, where are you???

I think you have a customer here, Yip.

Getting the degree v. not getting it is a long-standing issue on the board. There are those who think along your lines. They feel that it is more important to build turbine time early than to get the degree because turbine time gets you the job. They argue, with some validity, that four years of college have nothing to do with the actual act of flying an airplane.

On the other hand, there are those like me who believe that apart from the personal development benefits of education a four-year degree will open doors that would stay shut absent a degree. So, what is the bigger picture?

It has been argued that a degree is not necessary for a pilot because all but five companies do not require it. But, if you look at hiring profiles, you'll find that very few pilots are hired at airlines or better companies with only high school. Most have at least a few years of college, with a significant number of them having four-year degrees, or better. It is clear that one's chances of climbing the ladder improve with education beyond high school, and improve even more with the degree.

You may not feel the degree is necessary because you aren't targeting the airlines. You may feel differently later and will wish you had the degree.

Finally, as observed above and not often brought up during these discussions, you might be asked at an interview why you did not get your degree. As Ricky Ricardo said to Lucy, you will have some 'splainin' to do.

 

[pilotyip]

Man am I tempted

But no degree comments until 10-27

 

[bobbysamd]

B.S. in B.A.

Do you know who John Stuart Mill is? How about Adam Smith? What's the difference between retained earnings and owner's equity?

Another Business Administration major, I see . . .

 

[wings421]

there's no money in aviation!!!!!!!!!

If you own the oil there is, but thats totally off of the topic.

 

[Goose Egg]

Not BA, but BS.

Another Business Administration major, I see . . .

Nope. Guess again.

-Goose

 

[bobbysamd]

B.s.

Nope. Guess again.

-Goose

Econ?

 

[pilotyip]

For Bobby

And do you know what Adam Smith said about Atty's?

 

[bobbysamd]

And do you know what Adam Smith said about Atty's?

I do but cannot recite it.

Let's just say that an attorney is a nice thing to have if (1) someone runs you over; (2) some fed comes over to help; (3) you are elderly and a neighbor's dog knocks you over as you are walking; (4) etc.

 

[avbug]

Do you know who John Stuart Mill is?

None other than the creater of the Bastard Mill File. He was later legitimately married, and designed the half-bastard mill file, in honor of his first born son.

How about Adam Smith?

Signer of the declaration of Independence, poet, laureat, rider of fine ponies. He started what was later to become the national baketball league, and was killed in the first known and recorded ride-by shooting in a dispute over dried apricots. Some believe that had he survived until later years, and had he been born a century and a half later, he might have won a nobel peace prize for his contributions to the development of the adult diaper.

What's the difference between retained earnings and owner's equity?

That one's easy. Retained earnings are what my ex-wife got at each payday. These consisted of exactly 100% of my paycheck. Owners equity was the paystub I got when the action was all over, telling me how much I earned, which was exactly 100% of the sum of money I would never see.

Do you prefer Picasso over Dali?

Neither. I don't care for itallian, and I'm alergic to fancy foods. But if I had to choose, I'd take Picasso on white bread with some lettuce and mustard sauce.

Do you agree with Skinner or Freud?

I didn't like skinner. He was always against Mulder and Sculley. Freud is obviously a partial allusion to Freud-Dude, of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure fame. A mythical cocaine and sex addict of times past, he travelled to our modern day in a magic telephone booth, hosted by george carlin.

Would you know how to type a business letter?

With a typewriter. That one was easy.

What is an integral?

The diametric opposite of an outegral.

How does photosynthesis occur?

By pushing the button, silly. That's how you activate the shutter. Photosynthisis is when clicking the little button and the camera subject come together to make a really greatshot.

What is meant by geostrophic balance?

Geostrophic balance is a front end alignment for certain cheverolet geo automobiles with negative camber on front wheel drive systems. Geo, meaning, geo, and strophic, meaning really screwed up.

What is the speed of light?

Seven years. And about half a million miles, whatever that works out to be. That's how long it took to figure out that my ex wasn't much better than wale blubber and I should have dumped her 6.9 years previously. It took seven years to see the light.

What is the significance of the figure 9.8m/s^2?

Nine point eight meters per second per second is either gravitational acceleration at sea level, or the fastest 50 yard dash in NFL history.

Where does Jupiter reside in the solar system?

Day, or night? Be more specific.

How does one copy a formula in MS Excel?

That depends on the availability of a kinkos. Also one's age. A pencil stillworks pretty darn good, and never needs batteries or an ink cartridge. One copies a formula by looking on one's neighbor's paper while not turning one's head. And it's only one way to excell. There are many others.

What does ATP stand for (hint: the answer is not Airline Transport Pilot).

All The People. Formerly We, the people. Pre-electorate-college days.

What is DNA?

An all girl group, DNA won the 1982 grammy for finest harmony in a syncopated trio. Also the first pop girl group to feature a baratone knockout blond african-american woman with a college degree.

What does DNA stand for?

Da New Attitude.

What is vapor pressure?

It's John Kerry's boiling point.

How do I make a perfect fly-cast?

The secret is getting the fly imobilized long enough to get the plaster to set.

What is a top-spin lob?

Anything published by the republican party.

Who is your favorite astronomer? (I kind of like Messier.)

If you'd spent less time getting that pretty-boy education, you'd have listened to your mother, and know that cleaner is better than messier. More zen, too.

Is watercolor painting easier than oil?

That depends. With water colors, at least you can still see the little numbers.

 

[Goose Egg]

If you'd spent less time getting that pretty-boy education...

The tragedy here is that you think that a BS degree from a state school is "pretty-boy." Oh well, you have your time, and I have my degree. No regrets.

Anyway, good job on the rest of the message. Some of them were actually funny.

-Goose

Oh, and I wasn't an econ major. Think technical.

 

[pilotyip]

Adam Smith

Wrote "Wealth of Nations" the first micro economics book in the late 1700's in England. He said Atty's and clergy were parasites upon society for they produce no economic good.

 

[avbug]

Oh. That Adam Smith. The original poster, mr. egghead, should have been more specific. The other Mr. Smith, the one who died in the apricot dispute, was more of a macroeconomic expert.

But then, size doesn't really matter, does it?

 

[phil]

uh oh, a bad egg...

Anyway, good job on the rest of the message. Some of them were actually funny.

-Goose

Oh, and I wasn't an econ major. Think technical.

......No....think anal.....

 

[DFries]

$1.98 in late fees

My favorite quote "you spent 100,000 dollars on an education you can get for $1.98 in late fees at the public library" Matt Damon, Good Will Hunting.

Actually college is very important to a prospective employer, It shows that you can maintain a reasonable amount of discipline while partying and drinking every night. A very valuable asset if you plan on being a pilot for the majors!!!