I want my $50 back!

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Um, no dice.

I'm just really in a mood lately. I don't know what gives. Probably six months of darkness and freezin' my butt off.

You need to be here.

 

[Big Duke Six]

C'mon now...

Mar, a greasy old DC-6 is a fantasy for some of us out here! Don't sell it short. I know it probably feels like "just a job" to you, but you can't tell me don't get a huge smile on your face when you think back on what you've done and where you've been in those things.

I for one would love to know more about your job, airplanes and lifestyle up there. Oh, and the women.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Re: C'mon now...

Mar, a greasy old DC-6 is a fantasy for some of us out here! Don't sell it short. I know it probably feels like "just a job" to you, but you can't tell me don't get a huge smile on your face when you think back on what you've done and where you've been in those things.

I for one would love to know more about your job, airplanes and lifestyle up there. Oh, and the women.

Mar, sorry from straying away from the thread (it is ironic it is getting highjacked about aviation though), but if you're taking votes I'm interesting too in the lifestyle and flying the Mighty6. It appears to be a cool airplane. Unlike BD6, I don't care to hear about the women cause Momma would be upset, but if helps me to be a more cultured person then I'm all ears!

 

[Big Duke Six]

Set us free, Mar. Do it.

 

[Timebuilder]

TB--No. I'm not starting a thread about some old greasy DC6. What can I say? They're bitchy. They're old. And it pays my bills.

I was hoping to hear you wax poetic about the six, a la Ernie Gann, maybe telling about your first encounter with the old bird.

Maybe you just have to be in a better mood.

Hey, spring's coming. Maybe you'll feel better.

 

[Cat Driver]

Do you use water meth (CB16 )

And the troops would probably love to understand BMEP...

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** man go for it, I have already hi jacked the thread and got em talking about "" FLYING ""

 

[Timebuilder]

Here's an idea.

Did you know that there is an aircraft in the book of Ezekiel?

No kidding. There are several books written about this account from several thousand years ago.

Is it a helicopter? An airplane? Something else? You decide.


"4 Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also from within it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. 6 Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves' feet. They sparkled like the color of burnished bronze. 8 The hands of a man were under their wings on their four sides; and each of the four had faces and wings. 9 Their wings touched one another. The creatures did not turn when they went, but each one went straight forward. 10 As for the likeness of their faces, each had the face of a man; each of the four had the face of a lion on the right side, each of the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and each of the four had the face of an eagle. 11 Thus were their faces. Their wings stretched upward; two wings of each one touched one another, and two covered their bodies. 12 And each one went straight forward; they went wherever the spirit wanted to go, and they did not turn when they went. 13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches going back and forth among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire went lightning. 14 And the living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning.

15 Now as I looked at the living creatures, behold, a wheel was on the earth beside each living creature with its four faces. 16 The appearance of the wheels and their workings was like the color of beryl, and all four had the same likeness. The appearance of their workings was, as it were, a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17 When they moved, they went toward any one of four directions; they did not turn aside when they went. 18 As for their rims, they were so high they were awesome; and their rims were full of eyes, all around the four of them. 19 When the living creatures went, the wheels went beside them; and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20 Wherever the spirit wanted to go, they went, because there the spirit went; and the wheels were lifted together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 21 When those went, these went; when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 22 The likeness of the firmament above the heads of the living creatures was like the color of an awesome crystal, stretched out over their heads. 23 And under the firmament their wings spread out straight, one toward another. Each one had two which covered one side, and each one had two which covered the other side of the body. 24 When they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of many waters, like the voice of the Almighty, a tumult like the noise of an army; and when they stood still, they let down their wings. 25 A voice came from above the firmament that was over their heads; whenever they stood, they let down their wings."

 

[JBcrjca]

Jesus H. Christ in a chickenbasket...TB, what was the point of that post? You just never give up, and that's why Mar is frustrated. I feel his pain. The guys were trying to get the thread away from the usual religious topic, and you jump in again. Remember, a lot of us don't know what the book of Ezekiel is, and please don't tell me now. I really don't want to know.

Please, back to the discussion of Brake Mean Effective Pressure and other round engine topics.

 

[Timebuilder]

This is just an account of an aircraft.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Now why would that upset you?

 

[enigma]

You just never give up, and that's why Mar is frustrated. I feel his pain. ....................
Please, back to the discussion of Brake Mean Effective Pressure and other round engine topics.

But TB does give up. If you insist upon a tit for tat discussion, it will go on forever. If you just stop posting, so does TB.

My momma always told me, "IT TAKES TWO TO ARGUE".

enigma

 

[kevdog]

I think Jesus really loves Mar!

 

[mar]

You see, here's the problem:

I'm no Ernie Gann. Nor am I the only DC6 pilot on this board. Not only that, but I'm afraid I'm not infused with the proper amount of nostaglia necessary to wax poetic about the big Doug.

Is it just a job? No, it's an adventure too. I honestly never know where I'm going to spend the night. There are far too many variables in a regular DC6 operation. I suppose I could list them but you can probably guess the big ones.

So to the question about lifestyle, well, it can be tough but what flying job isn't tough on lifestyle.

When we work, we work hard and fast.

All right, I feel "A Day in the Life" coming on. Maybe we can start a new thread about that...?

Here's the deal. About an hour and a half before departure the FE shows up for the preflight and fueling. He'll start in the cockpit and check things like the fire warning system, electrical system, hydraulic system. He'll also check all of the fuel boost pumps and the warning horns (takeoff and gear). After the cockpit is finished he'll go outside for the walk around. Obvious stuff: gear pins, hydraulics, uplocks, lights, tires, brakes, etc.

All that should take about 30 minutes. By then the FO and Capt should be sauntering in the door. Have a look at the release and the weather and the load and give a fuel load to the engineer...who goes back out to the plane, unless one of us was cool enough to go out there and tell him what the fuel load was.

The FE will take the planes 14' ladder and climb on top of the wing (in every weather condition, it doesn't matter. If it's snowing he'll also take a broom with him--if he's smart). The plane has 4 main fuel tanks and 4 aux tanks for a total capacity of 5404 gals of 100LL. That's 32,424# of fuel at a high power cruise setting of 1200bhp at 2400#/hr that's roughly 13.5 hours endurance. A more typical fuel load for our flights is between 9,500# and 12,500#.

The old joke about running out of oil before running out of fuel is a true comment. Each engine carries 30 gals of oil. We figure a 10 gal burn for the first hour and then 4 gals for every hour or leg after that.

And then there's the water/methanol mix: 10 gals per engine. That'll give you about 3 to 4 "wet" takeoffs depending on temperature and technique.

A lot of this airplane's weight, as you can tell, is just carrying itself around. It has an empty weight of about 59,000#. It'll carry a cabin load of about 28,000# and has a max takeoff weight of 103,800# when using water injection and auto-feather.

The engines will develop a max 2400bhp at takeoff. Max 2800RPM. Max 59.5"MP. There's a formula for calculating bhp from BMEP and RPM but I don't remember it off the top of my head.

Bottom line with the BMEP gauge is that it's basically a torque gauge measuring power at the prop but they're not even calibrated. So we only use them for leaning (12 drop) and as a general power instrument. I usually take a nice scan of the BMEPs, MPs, RPMs and oil and fuel pressures after the 60 knot call but before V1.

The unusual thing about the DC6 (maybe other large recips too, I don't know) is that the FE handles the throttles except during the flare on landing. During takeoffs the pilot's hand is on the throttles until V1 in case of an abort but the FE is setting MP and monitoring RPMs, water, oil and fuel pressures.

After takeoff the FE will be busy looking at all 144 spark plugs (one at a time) on a scope. He'll be looking for patterns that will indicate shorted leads, fouled plugs, low compression, etc. Simultaneously he'll also be adjusting cowl flaps to maintain 170 degrees on the CHTs and maintaining climb power with the throttles.

This airplane belongs rightfully so to the engineer and then the Capt. It is really a huge responsibility for someone who is typically new to the company. In fact, I understand Air Atlantique, a British operator, puts new hires in the right seat and then upgrades them to engineer and then Capt. It seems like a pretty good idea to me as I've come to believe that the most useless person in a three person cockpit is the FO.

The FO is basically just responsible for paperwork, flying every other leg (usually the light one) and trying to stay out of the way of the engineer.

The cockpit wasn't originally designed for an FE. But after a few crashes in the 50's and after some pressure from ALPA (I understand) Douglas was forced to install an FE seat, facing forward between the pilots stradling the center console where they put the trims, mixes, carb heats, flap and gear handles.

The cockpit is huge but it's often an orgy of shoulders, hands and elbows.

Anyway, once leveled in cruise, the FE will lean out the engines and this is usually when a cracked cylinder will rear its ugly head with a nice firm backfire. When that happens the FE will re-enrichen the mix, turn to the scope and determine which cylinder is the offender. At that point the engine is usually feathered (as a Capt once told me: There are no mandatory shut downs when I'm on board) and we return to base to wait for the four to six hour jug change which has made our already long day that much longer.

One of the charming things about working in Alaska is that we operate under 121 supplemental. That's right. There's no "duty day" limits per se. Twelve hours of flying in a 24 hour period. That's it. I was on duty for 20 hours once after a diversion to an airport with no fuel.

Don't ask. Long story.

What else? I don't know. When it's light it flys like a seminole. When it's heavy it flys like a big boat. It has a real fat straight wing so it can handle big loads on crappy strips. The gear is stout--very stout. The systems are redundant. The beautiful thing about the Six is that if something breaks there's usually another way to get it to work.

All of the heaters (3 wing, 1 cabin) have dual ignition and cross feed capability.

The carbs have heat and alcohol.

The windscreen has heat and alcohol.

Pressurization is automatic/manual or...coffee-grinder (nevermind). Two cabin super-chargers.

Electrical: One GEN can handle the entire load. Three inverters. Engine instruments get power from two. The third is for emergencies when on BATT power.

Two engine driven HYD pumps and one elect. aux pump. In case of total loss of HYD the brakes have an emer air press tank.

The props are reversible up to METO power and quite effective but they get tempermental when it gets really cold. Blade switches stick and sometimes they get stuck in reverse or just go to feather when coming out of reverse. This is where an experienced and knowledgeable FE comes in very handy. Talk about arm pits and elbows...

It is an amazing airplane considering it was designed only 40 years after the Wright Flyer. It was, at one point, state of the art. You can see those guys in Santa Monica actually sat down and thought about what they were gonna build. The design is a proven success no doubt about it. And I've been accused of being bitter and twisted but the truth of the matter is that I'm proud to work for a company that has been operating DC6s longer than anyone else in the world. We've had two hull losses (one fatal) in 48 years of business. And it's not like these things get pampered. They work all year-round, all around the clock in every conceivable condition. The fact of the matter is we abuse them.

We've de-clutched the high-blowers and run the lowest possible octane while making full power wet take offs. We have the least experienced crews ever. Every take off and almost every landing is overweight--and not always greased, let me tell you. And then we'll take this poor machine that was designed to cross an ocean and we'll do 10 shuttles a day to an airport that's 15 mins away when it's -30F. Tell me that's not tough on the structure and the engines.

Is it no wonder she smokes, spits, coughs, squeaks, rattles, moans and slowly shudders everytime she gets off.



It's the moaning and shudders I like best.

There. That's flying a DC6.

 

[Timebuilder]

Cool.

That's just what I was looking for.

Some questions.

Engine type, number of cylinders per engine?

Does it fuel like a modern airplane, with a panel under the wing?

Is the FE always A&P rated?

That water/methanol mix. What's a "wet takeoff?"

I'm sure I can find others....

 

[empenage]

Mar,

Question, ever fly with a guy named Bill Dodds?

 

[bigD]

That's awesome mar. Thank you for sharing.

 

[FL350]

Ditto

 

[Billy Madison]

I'm still trying to figure out why you paid $50.

Dude, you got ripped off.

Billy.

 

[mar]

I didn't even get to the best part

Did I mention the crews load and unload the plane when we're at the out stations? Who else is gonna do it?

I mean, we take our breaks when we're enroute. That's when I decided I was a wired for long-haul. A job like Southwest would be cool, don't get me wrong, but my idea of a good day at work is taking off my jacket, pulling out the newspaper and having a cup of coffee.

Empennage--No sir. I've never met a man named Bill Dodds. I worked for NAC '98-'99 and then 2002 to present.

TB, your questions:

--Engine type, number of cylinders per engine?

Pratt & Whitney R-2800. Two rows of 9 cylinders; 18 cyl each engine.

--Does it fuel like a modern airplane, with a panel under the wing?

There is no single point fueling. You must actually walk on the wing to the various fuel caps--straight into the tank. The FE carries a dipstick for the inboards. The outboards have a dipstick installed in the wing surface.

--Is the FE always A&P rated?

Not always. I'm not. Though the company would like to move towards hiring Professional FEs (PFE).

--That water/methanol mix. What's a "wet takeoff?"

Water injection is a system consisting of a tank filled with a 50/50 mix of water and methanol (Meth to prevent freezing) and a pump. Injecting water thru the fuel feed valve into the blower throat allows the carb to lean for best power. The presence of water in the fuel/air mix absorbs heat from combustion that would otherwise be absorbed by the excess fuel from a full rich mixture. If the takeoff is made with no water injection (light weights) the max "dry" manifold pressure is 53" and the mixture is fully enriched.

 

[StaySeated]

"The old joke about running out of oil before running out of fuel is a true comment. Each engine carries 30 gals of oil. We figure a 10 gal burn for the first hour and then 4 gals for every hour or leg after that. "

Holy fricken Sh1t!!!!!!!!!Can you see light through the gaps in the cylinders?

 

[Cat Driver]

See what happens when someone high jacks a thread........

Hell the next thing you know we will have an aviation discussion...

By the way Mar I'm impressed with your description.. I had the privelage of flying with NWT in yellowknife on the six many years ago...a wonderful airplane sort of a Super Cub with four engines.

Cat Driver: