I think I missed the bus here.

[pilotmiketx]

The difference being the military students are recently college educated and their standards are a bit higher as they are being taught from day 1 to fly High Performance military a/c. I don't recall anything in the Private PTS that says "Student must demonstrate knowledge of the Lift Formula"

Try teaching it to a 40 year old sheet metal worker who graduated from high school 22 years earlier and hasn't set foot in a classroom since.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Let's not forget the Ideal Gas Formula for those after lunch lessons.
You mean, PV=nRT. ALso known as Boyle's Law where the volume of gas is proportional to the temperature and inversely proportional to the pressure. I always wondered why i had to rip one when it got really hot outside.

It's why I have to smell the captains farts at altitude. At least until I put on the mask and goggles and pulled the "Fumes in the Cockpit checklist". He got the hint.

 

[FlynChick]

I think you're confusing the education one receives when just getting ther PPL and what you get at a 4 year aviation school like ERAU, UND, Purdue, etc. The convo all started with bashing someone for knowing the Lift equ. but not knowing hot to fly worth crap....well, thats a shame, but life none the less...you'll see that everywhere. I would personally think its overboard and not the best idea to teach your privates or your IFR pilots more than they need to know (thats a relative point), but for your higher end students (CFIs or those wanted to pursue aviation as a career) should poke at the subject at least, not necessarily memorizing formulas, but comprehending concepts. again....don't confuse 4 yr college aviation degree material with what pilots should / shouldn't know at a Part 61/141 for lower end ratings and cert. FC

 

[coolyokeluke]

The difference being the military students are recently college educated and their standards are a bit higher as they are being taught from day 1 to fly High Performance military a/c. I don't recall anything in the Private PTS that says "Student must demonstrate knowledge of the Lift Formula"

Try teaching it to a 40 year old sheet metal worker who graduated from high school 22 years earlier and hasn't set foot in a classroom since.

I went to school as an engineer and I thought that while being able to recite formula is not valuable in the cockpit, having a basic understanding of it (for example the lift equation) and how and why it relates to what you're doing might be useful or at least interesting. I did teach students with a lot of differing education levels, from high school dropout (quite difficult) to students with master's degrees in mathmatics and physics. You can imagine the students with advanced degrees enjoyed learning about it but sometimes they could be a pain in the arse when they know more about such things than you do! I think I learned something from all of my students.

 

[aLear31pilot]

I just have to say something here..... "something".... There.. I said it! Go on with your bad selves.

 

[VNugget]

Don't recall saying that. All of the Flight Test Engineers that I've flown with have all been pretty humble and very professional and *GASP* they all had GOOD STICK AND RUDDER SKILLS!!! I'm pretty sure when they're flying a test card, they don't have calculus on the brain. And none ever started a sentence with "One time, at Embry-Riddle..."

Wait, wait, wait... back the train up! So in-depth aerodynamic knowledge DOESN'T preclude good stick and rudder skills, after all? Now I'm REALLY confused... in your original post, you said "If those poor pimply turds didn't have to learn so much useless information, they might be able to concentrate on learning to fly."

Oh, and who said anything about having calculus on your brain while you are flying? Don't look this way, wasn't me.

Because you have to have the last word. And although you are in your infancy as a pilot, you think you know more than those of us who have been doing it since you were a glimmer in your daddy's eye.

So I'm low time, therefore those who study aerodynamics perpetuate wivestales and hangar myths? Sorry, don't follow ya....

There's a concept for you...simplify the material so the already overwhelmed student can digest it and make the transition from Application to Correlation. I think you made my point for me.

The difference being the military students are recently college educated and their standards are a bit higher as they are being taught from day 1 to fly High Performance military a/c. I don't recall anything in the Private PTS that says "Student must demonstrate knowledge of the Lift Formula"

Try teaching it to a 40 year old sheet metal worker who graduated from high school 22 years earlier and hasn't set foot in a classroom since.

Which of those 2 cases were we talking about here? An aeronautical university! Yeah, the notion that someone getting a 4 year college degree in aviation would learn something as esoteric and superfluous as the lift equation is completely ridiculous!

Like someone else said... the lessons should be tailored to the individual student. If it's an engineering student, of course I'm teaching them the lift equation. If it's a 40 year old sheet metal worker, then he's getting the simplified version of it, but one way or another you bet your ass he's gonna understand the most basic concept of how to keep an airplane in the air!

But for the fear of being called a poor pimply turd by some hotshot who's just too cool for school, I think I'll just turn in my pilot certificate. I don't wanna put anyone in danger due to my complete lack of stick and rudder skills. They don't mix with aerodynamics knlewledge, yaknow?

 

[FlynChick]

Yeah, the notion that someone getting a 4 year college degree in aviation would learn something as esoteric and superfluous as the lift equation is completely ridiculous! QUOTE]

Quick Question, regardless of whether or not you think aviation should/can be stretched into a 4 year degree, WHAT exactly do you think 120 credit hours worth of stuff should cover, just the "vanilla" of flying? Somepeople have to carry this "useless" knowledge on, engineers, scientists, pilots (not all, as we've already discussed).

Maybe its because I took the courses with all the equations that I see the point in learning it. If you knew about the degree you would know that all the aviation univ go a bit in depth in most areas, (hence expression, "jack of all trades")....do you expect all BS degrees to not go into detail about its trade? Pick up any book on aerodynamics, and whether they mention Laws specifically or not, guess what....its based off geeky formulas that wind tunnel lab rats figured out and give to us pilots in a digestive state. Personally i would think its sad if any aviation degree DIDN'T go into detail, takes the point away of majoring in it.

And sweetie, formulas and physics isn't an arcane concept, or esoteric as you said, maybe its just YOU that can't comprehend it, or maybe you've never even tried.

 

[FN FAL]

Not that knowing how planes fly and how the ATC system works isn't important, what I would like to know is this...

How come aviation universities don't reqiure at least one or two classes on unions and the history of labor.

Not saying that pilots aren't smart cookies, but it would be nice to see that those who wind up in airline unions don't run about thinking that outsourcing and competition in a global economy didn't start with them.

 

[bigD]

What the hell are you talking about FN FAL? Are you high?

 

[FN FAL]

What the hell are you talking about FN FAL? Are you high?

No, the moon is pretty and I'd thought I'd do my obligatory "we are the world" sing a long. Sorry!