I really ****** up today

[snowman]

Lesson learned. Now you know and can impart wisdom on others... maybe even tell a long winded story about it in a couple of years. No worries. move on and keep learning.

adios
snowman

 

[avbug]

Unanswered,

Surely you don't believe that missing a maintenance item means something other than a lesson learned, do you? Surely you don't believe that the skill to exercise the judgement you'll use throughout your flying career, be it private or professional, comes from a book?

Experience comes from the learning you do along the way...often not obtained from a book or the words of your instructor. You can beat yourself up right now, or be grateful tomorrow that this moment is impressed in your memory. It's this moment that may lead you to find something important tomorrow.

A spinner is important. It serves an aerodynamic function. It serves an aesthetic function. It's critical to prop mass balance. Losing it in flight can hurt you and do structural damage. But it probably won't kill you.

What you have learned today may provide the impetus for you to tomorrow to do a more thorough preflight (accept now that you're going to miss things tomorrow, too. And the following year, and the following decade...each one a learning experience). Next time it may save lives. Or dollars. Or just teach you another lesson.

One important truth about learning is this; seldom is worthy learning accomplished except that it is accompanied by an invitation to humility.

Accept the lesson and move on. Enough said.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Guitar Guy- Im very sure he is joking, it would be hard to break off the tow bar head without breaking the landing gear.

Noting that the poster is a relatively low-time pilot, I just wanted to be sure. Raising the gear with the tow bar intact could not only damage the gear or the retraction system, it could also cause it to get stuck in-transit or up. And one thing that is important to do in any field, not just aviation, is to get in front of a mistake instead of trying to hide it, which can often make things worse. It's usually bad news to get caught in a lie or covering something up.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Noting that the poster is a relatively low-time pilot, I just wanted to be sure. Raising the gear with the tow bar intact could not only damage the gear or the retraction system, it could also cause it to get stuck in-transit or up. And one thing that is important to do in any field, not just aviation, is to get in front of a mistake instead of trying to hide it, which can often make things worse. It's usually bad news to get caught in a lie or covering something up.

yes they left the gear down, I think VERY shortly after rotation the banging under the fuselage triggered a little spark in the brain that said "Oh, $hit".

the tow bar stayed on, they landed - rather uneventful - very luckily it was just a deadhead leg and an insurance claim.

there really isn't even a lesson to be learned on this one!! (uh...be sure the tow bar is off..)

Life goes on as long as nobody gets hurt.,

 

[DX Rick]

Exactly!!!!

I can't beleive what I am hearing on this thread.

"A spinner is only there for looks"

"It's not like a fatal thing could happen"

WHAT!?????????

Were do you think that spinner goes if it departs the aircraft? That's right, through the prop, then it can get launched through the bottom of a wing or shot through the elevator.


WTF?

EXACTLY MY FRIEND!! I had one crack on me in flight. Brand Spanking new 172. It cracked at the screw that mounts it to the prop hub, all the way to the point of the hub. Shook the hell out of the airplane until we got it back. If that thing were to come off, we were certain it was going to hit some part of the plane, and tear a hole.

 

[UnAnswerd]

Well there's no doubt that I'll be checking that area more carefully in the future. It really just kind of irritated me, that I had missed something that was pretty obviouse. Anyway I appreciate the input for you guys. I'm certainly not going to dwell on it, but at the time I was in fact pretty ashamed for having missed the damage.

 

[UnAnswerd]

I have noticed a pattern in your posting: You ask a question, get a good answer, and then you argue with it, as if it wasn't the answer that you wanted to hear.

I did argue with you, and some others regarding the value of college education. But I do not otherwise recall disputing answers to any other questions I have asked. If you see a "pattern", fine. But I honestly do not recognize it.

In other words, I actually give a d amn. I apologize for losing patience.

Fair enough. I do not resent you, and will continue to value your input knowing that you are more experienced than I.

 

[JRSLim]

Oh and...

Oh and..
...by the way, while you should indeed learn from this - quit beating yourself up.
A few weeks ago I watched an ATP 'walk around' a plane - not preflight but walk around - and casually point out things to his girlfriend. Didn't consult the checklist, ALMOST missed the pitot cover (low wing Piper) and yanked the chains through the mounts.

Don't beat yourself up, you are learning - everybody makes mistakes, but not everybody learns from them.

 

[eddie]

I watched the owner of a cherokee lease-back taxi from the flight school with his external rudder lock still engaged...we were able to contact the tower before he took off, but that would have been an uncomfortable trip around the pattern.

Missing stuff on preflight is part of aviation. This is just a good way to remind yourself to be more observant.

 

[ultrarunner]

The plane was in the hanger and my instructor told me to pre-flight it. So I did. I walked around the plane checking for all the things I knew I was supposed to. Airport personnel then opened the door, conected a towbar to the little Cherokee, and pulled her out. Then, one of these guys said to my instructor, "looks the prop spinner has a crack in it".

I cannot believe I missed this! Here I am the one who is supposed to carefully inspect the plane and determine if it is safe to fly, but instead, just some airport employee happens to notice a problem... I can only hope that I would have noticed a missing prop!!!!

HOLY crapoal dude. Did you make sure the tires had the EXACT presures, etc...


It's a minor thing man, don't sweat it and get yourself all worked up. Remember, there are more than 1 or 2 loose rivets in the plane anyway from it's life as a trainer, and you didn't catch those either.

 

[mmmdonut]

WAKE UP PLEASE

UnAnswerd is what we call a soft troll. He is not the simpleton student pilot he claims to be. He posts these retarded questions to see how many replies he can get. He knows that many of the CFI types on here will reply and then form a little mini debate on their answers. His satisfaction comes from seeing the thread page count hit 2.....3....4.. and so on. He's much like Legacy Driver in that respect.

But seriously, he's yanking your chain. When you were a student, didn't you ask your instructor these questions? I sure didn't run home, log on, and ask people who might berate me.

See UnAnswerd for what he really is.......

 

[Vik]

Don't ruin the joke. Sheesh. It would have been goood to see how long this would have gone on.

WAKE UP PLEASE

UnAnswerd is what we call a soft troll. He is not the simpleton student pilot he claims to be. He posts these retarded questions to see how many replies he can get. He knows that many of the CFI types on here will reply and then form a little mini debate on their answers. His satisfaction comes from seeing the thread page count hit 2.....3....4.. and so on. He's much like Legacy Driver in that respect.

But seriously, he's yanking your chain. When you were a student, didn't you ask your instructor these questions? I sure didn't run home, log on, and ask people who might berate me.

See UnAnswerd for what he really is.......

 

[ultrarunner]

I can't believe I bit on this. Dammmmit.

allright, no more wine for me tonight!

 

[Kingairrick]

Doh!!

 

[snowman]

arrrgh!
I am such a noob. I cannot believe I responded to the bait. Am I the only one that has done this.... Shaite, I am never going to post again. HOW did I miss the obvious signs. Man-o-man I am a complete failure and will turn in my Cert.
adios
snoman

 

[qmaster3]

I can't believe I bit on this. Dammmmit.

allright, no more wine for me tonight!

ultrarunner, I fell victim. After sticking up for this guy I had to go back and apologize to everyone I offended. Yes, I felt like a jack**s.


mmmdonut **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** it, why didn't you let TonyC get him?? I guess it had to end.
Happy New Years!

 

[Diesel]

arrrrgh fing loser

 

[Corona]

That's not that bad. Try this...

You're running late for a lesson, tell the student to go preflight, you'll be right out. Go running out to the plane, hop in and ask if the student did a preflight? He says yes, you go bouncing down the runway and notice no airspeed. You abort, pull of the runway, hop out and notice a pitot cover on the tube.

You then kick yourself for trusting your student, then ask him if he actually ever reads the checklist where it says pitot cover removed????

Learn from your mistakes and move on.

Here's a better one: An instructor goes out to the 152 w/one of his best students, hops in and student fires up. They taxi out, not realizing the tail is still tied down.

Note for future reference: A C152 WILL rotate at 0.05 KTAS if the tail is tied down while taxiing. In fact, it will overrotate.

That instructor was a bit of an idiot that day. Still is, on occasion.

For some reason...umm...his name escapes me.

C

 

[ultrarunner]

Corona, you are humble beyond belief. My hat is off to you.

touche!

 

[Jagdflieger]

The most important thing I have ever learned in aviation, is that you can learn from anyone and you will never stop learning..ever! I have learned from line folks, a ton from maintenance, truckloads from other pilots, from flight attendance, ATC, the FAA (yeah..I said it) and everyone else who is around airplanes. Once you think you know everything, thats when your the biggest threat in the air.

You did not catch something on a walkaround, and next time I bet you will look at that spinner differently. Take what you learned, apply it next time and promise yourself you will be more careful in your preflight. The next lesson will come soon enough..move on.

Blue skies!

 

[bobbysamd]

A lesson learned

[O]ne of these guys said to my instructor, "looks the prop spinner has a crack in it".

I cannot believe I missed this . . . .

. . . but you learned a hell of a lesson on preflighting airplanes!! That lesson alone was worth the cost of the flight for that day. Guaranteed, your future line inspections will be very thorough.

My late father said that one can learn things the easy way and the hard way. Sometimes, the hard way teaches better lessons.

This reminds me of a trick some examiners pull on their examinees. They stick a long piece of freezer tape on the airplane's belly. They tell the examinee to preflight. At the end, the examiner pulls off the tape and tells the examinee, "Look at the rip you missed on the airplane's belly!"

Next time, be more observant. I second the suggestion of preflighting the airplane on the ramp outside of the hangar. Good luck with the rest of your training.

 

[UnAnswerd]

Next time, be more observant. I second the suggestion of preflighting the airplane on the ramp outside of the hangar. Good luck with the rest of your training.

bobbysamd, thanks again for the input and taking me seriously. Do not beleive mmmdonut and others that have determined me to be a troll. It is not true.

 

[mnixon]

Noting that the poster is a relatively low-time pilot, I just wanted to be sure. Raising the gear with the tow bar intact could not only damage the gear or the retraction system, it could also cause it to get stuck in-transit or up. And one thing that is important to do in any field, not just aviation, is to get in front of a mistake instead of trying to hide it, which can often make things worse. It's usually bad news to get caught in a lie or covering something up.

For the love of god yes I am joking. Im not as stupid as I look! Haha..WOrd up

 

[avbug]

Unanswered,

I wouldn't worry too much. The donut is in fact the troll, who has yet to make a contribution here. He logs on to attack other posters, and that's about all he does here.

Last year I got a dispatch in a turbine dromader, to a fire. My ground crew began readying the airplane and pulling tie downs (the drom needs to stay tied down and control locked until somone is at the controls) while I stripped and threw on a flight suit and boots. I climbed aboard. I had a new person on the crew, whom I relied upon to secure each cover, lock, and tiedown.

When I began the start sequence, the ITT shot through the roof, and I cut it off as a hot start. I let it spool to cool, shut off the starter, and then heard a strange, loud "pop!" I gave it a second shot, and the temp took off again. I cut if off, and again heard the pop. I climbed down from the cockpit,went around the front, and found the intake cover was still in place. It wraps around the entire intake from the outside, and was being pulled into the induction ducting, then snapping back when the engine began to spool down.

That type of operation doesn't permit the opportunity to do the same kind of detailed run-through that you do; it's a time critical flight that pushes for five minutes notice from dispatch to airborne (longer for loading). For five minutes of speed, the cost could have been two hundred grand. Pricey five minutes, don't you think? Live and learn, and never stop looking for the things that can hurt you. They are legion.

 

[Vik]

avbug, when it was pointed out that unanswerd might be a troll, I decided to search for threads started by him (Search -> Advanced Search) and its pretty entertaining to sit back and see this guy in action. Obviously, very bored, very very bored, probably has nothing better to do all day than to post on flightinfo and waste everyones time.


His first post was on 9/14, when he signed on and created a profile with 5.7hrs of flight time, by 10/24 he wants to know what to do b/c he is "really bad at taxiing" .. and before this he wants to know what kind of sunglasses pilots wear and if aviation degrees are really worth it .. yeah, a guy who just had his demo flight, and is asking ridiculously novice questions wants to know if aviation degrees are worth it. By 10/31 he wants to know who pays for training at Part 135 ops.

By 11/14 this girl has dumped him for taking her up and doing a stall and scaring the sh*t out of her. He of course took her up solo, so he msut have his private. By 11/24 he wants to know about PFT, by 12/12 he's been called a dumb sh*t by his ground school instructor that is teaching him "FAA regulations" .. he's learning the regs AFTER getting his PPL?

Anyway, he has asked all sorts of questions he could have just asked his CFI such as whether he can log time in a kit aircraft.

Oh yah, the beginning of this thread is great .. his rental is kept in a hanger, and they need "airport personnel" to come and tow it out of the hanger.

Lastly, many of the threads he starts, he never participates in again. No "thank you for the info," etc.

Anyway, very amusing. We've all had a great laugh.

Vik

Unanswered,

I wouldn't worry too much. The donut is in fact the troll, who has yet to make a contribution here. He logs on to attack other posters, and that's about all he does here.

Last year I got a dispatch in a turbine dromader, to a fire. My ground crew began readying the airplane and pulling tie downs (the drom needs to stay tied down and control locked until somone is at the controls) while I stripped and threw on a flight suit and boots. I climbed aboard. I had a new person on the crew, whom I relied upon to secure each cover, lock, and tiedown.

When I began the start sequence, the ITT shot through the roof, and I cut it off as a hot start. I let it spool to cool, shut off the starter, and then heard a strange, loud "pop!" I gave it a second shot, and the temp took off again. I cut if off, and again heard the pop. I climbed down from the cockpit,went around the front, and found the intake cover was still in place. It wraps around the entire intake from the outside, and was being pulled into the induction ducting, then snapping back when the engine began to spool down.

That type of operation doesn't permit the opportunity to do the same kind of detailed run-through that you do; it's a time critical flight that pushes for five minutes notice from dispatch to airborne (longer for loading). For five minutes of speed, the cost could have been two hundred grand. Pricey five minutes, don't you think? Live and learn, and never stop looking for the things that can hurt you. They are legion.

 

[TrafficInSight]

Interestingly enough on Cessnas the spinner is required equipment, on Pipers it's optional.

 

[Goose Egg]

But I do not otherwise recall disputing answers to any other questions I have asked. If you see a "pattern", fine. But I honestly do not recognize it.

Obviously, very bored, very very bored, probably has nothing better to do all day than to post on flightinfo and waste everyones time.

His first post was on 9/14, when he signed on and created a profile with 5.7hrs of flight time, by 10/24 he wants to know what to do b/c he is "really bad at taxiing" .. and before this he wants to know what kind of sunglasses pilots wear and if aviation degrees are really worth it .. yeah, a guy who just had his demo flight, and is asking ridiculously novice questions wants to know if aviation degrees are worth it. By 10/31 he wants to know who pays for training at Part 135 ops.

By 11/14 this girl has dumped him for taking her up and doing a stall and scaring the sh*t out of her. He of course took her up solo, so he msut have his private. By 11/24 he wants to know about PFT, by 12/12 he's been called a dumb sh*t by his ground school instructor that is teaching him "FAA regulations" .. he's learning the regs AFTER getting his PPL?

Anyway, he has asked all sorts of questions he could have just asked his CFI such as whether he can log time in a kit aircraft.

UnAnswerd,

I'm personally not quite sure if you are a troll, but either way, do you see my point? Others have noticed the pattern too...

I didn't know about taking a passenger with a student pilot certificate. Now that is a pretty big screw up. Please tell me that you didn't know that you weren't supposed to do that.

-Goose

 

[User546]

haha everyone I didn't bite on this thread and you did!

...wait a minute... DANG IT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TonyC]

His first post was on 9/14, when he signed on and created a profile with 5.7hrs of flight time, ...

A small correction here. I don't know exactly what his hours were when he created his profile, but the first time I noticed he was at 2.2 hours. (In fact, the 2.2 was after his second flight, so it's likely he started with less.) He has increased that number incrementally along the way.

The first post he made was reasonable: I want to someday get paid to flty. What do you think?

Then he followed with a series of threads he began, the pattern of which belies an ulterior motive.

For example, 2 hours after his very first post he is asking a rather sophisticated question I need a personal opinion on jets/ratings where he discusses Class A airspace and type ratings. Then he turns around and asks how to taxi and what makes airplanes turn.

It seems to me that he delights in churning the waters, and that's about it. I might accuse him of preying on the generosity of helpful pilots, but that might be too strong. I'll give him credit for being mischievous rather than malicious, though that may just be my benevolent streak showing through.

He did in fact apologize for the Please help, girl just dumped me thread he started in which he recounted:

So I've been dating this girl for a few days now, and I tell her I have a private pilot certificate. She says "that's neat" and I asked her if maybe sometime she might like to go up. She was a little reluctant, but I managed to talk her into it...

So at about 3,000', ... I pulled the throttle all the way back, and the engine might as well have died altogether. ... I said "Oh my God, we've just had an engine failure"!!! ... The airspeed was down to nothing and the stall-horn was on. For a second we were just sort of hanging there. Then the little Cessna shook and jolted a bit, and the nose finally pitched down and the rest of the airplane followed. We were diving fast, and I just started screaming. I looked over at my date, and noticed that she was crouched up in the fetal position and was making a noise that sounded like the stall-horn. I told her it wouldn't be painful. After about 1,000' I pushed the yoke forward, applied full-power, and smoothly pulled out of the dive. She didn't even noticed that we had recovered. By this time she was still crouched up, shaking, sweating, and crying. I Just started laughing and told her it was only a joke. I just couldn't retain myself. I was laughing so hard I had to wipe my eyes to scan for traffic. She was not laughing. Were were at about 2,000' and she screamed "That wasn't funny you asshole"!!!

The apology only came, however, after someone pointed out that 30 minutes earlier he had begun a thread entitled I'm really bad at taxiing...... where he begins "I have a massive 2.2 hours of total time thus far."

You be the judge. Whether he be a troll, a fraud, or the Real McCoy, he has a legitimacy issue.

TonyC- Daveman????

I really didn't wanna do it again.

 

[avbug]

Interesting phenomenon here. Someone asks a legitimate question. No harm in answering. The answer may benifit others. Good information to be had. No obvious indication that this person may or may not be legitimate. One known troll posts (mr. donut), and the lemmings follow to the sea. A lot like the united-we-stand crowd and their car stickers after september 11th.

Weather unanswered is a legitimate poster or not is not for me to say. Nor do I care much, particularly in light of the fact that many post here who do nothing but attack other posters, contributing nothing. If someone is a troll because they post positive-discussion producing questions, then let them continue to post.

So far as the shock that a student pilot might attempt to learn more than what an instructor has to say, don't get too worked up. I've counseled students on the web for years on numerous web sites, and have met with them privately. It's a very common thing. It's also very common for students to be months into their flying and still not understand or have received instruction on basic topics such as regulation, meteorology, aerodynamics, psyiology, etc.

We see it all the time with ATP's right here on this site, as well as in regular conversation...why be surprised that a student pilot might not be on top of it all? I'm certainly not. Crikey. The FAA often isn't. Yet you're ready to execute one who calls himself a student, right?

Weather unasnwered is a student pilot or not, I don't know, and don't care. I found merit in the question, and answered it. I will continue to answer or respond to the questions that he posts as I see fit, without any lemming tendencies to immediately apologise and turn my back the moment a troll such as mmmdonut makes his "revalation."

Legitimate or not, the questions carry no malice and represent a point of discussion here that in this case has merit and is worth discussion. Most posters who responded to the question in this thread were in accord; one might call that ratification or consensus on the topic of learning, on the topic of mistakes, and on the topic of gaining wisdom and judgement. I find that enlightening. Don't you?