I must be the STUPID CMR pilot.

[8HourPilot]

Agreed they are everywhere, but you have to admit, the 91 world is something else.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Skyboy's obviously someone who'd argue that the sky wasn't blue just for the sport of it.

Since he can't understand the point here's one more try. IDIOTS EXIST IN EVERY FACET OF AVIATION. It's ridiculous to try and submit there are greater concentrations in one area or another.

But I'm sure he'll be back along telling me I'm wrong somehow.

I don't really need to argue it, the accident rates of corporate aviation versus 121 speak for themselves.

 

[standaman]

Whoever questions what another crew does to keep the flight safe is an idiot.

 

[AvroSucks]

Don't You Ever Think About Deicing My Gin And Tonic. I Don't Know How I Would Live.

 

[Mercury]

Ah yes the 91 vs 121 thread has been reborn!!!! I like this one almost as much as the ABC vs XYZ airlines arguement which is of course a close second to the my RJ can beat up your RJ discussion. Yes i agree 121 is a highly standardized environment and as i said in other posts my hat is off to the folks in the various training depts for teaching and enforcing these high standards.
Part 91 operators run the gambit from one aircraft owner/operator types that make your pack your own lunch so they can save a nickle, to the Fortune 100 that have FOMs or SOPs that are just as standardized and definitive as a 121 carrier. Especially if your DO is former military or 121. As a matter of fact we have 2 pilots that are former 121 check airmen/examiners.

H25B has sounded off on this subject before and once again he is right on the money...idiots exist in every facet of aviation.... The key is to operate as a professional regardless of whether your flying a Cub, a 'Bus or a Jungle Jet.
I've seen mistakes made by 700 hr fo's as well as guys with 10 years in the same type aircraft, God knows ive made my fair share, the key my friends is to learn from your errors, bank your experiences and mature as a professional
pilot.

DAMM I told myself I wasnt gonna get involved in this anymore

 

[Jack Mahogoff]

Deicing:

It's better to do it and not need it than to need it and not do it.

 

[h25b]

the accident rates of corporate aviation versus 121 speak for themselves.

Yep, they speak for themselves alright. Just not for your side of the arguement...

You obviously want to lump in any average Joe with an airplane as "Corporate" and that's not exactly how it works.

This is from the NBAA web site...

"Aviation safety expert Bob Breiling, whose numbers NBAA relies upon, calculates from NTSB data accident statistics using a more precise approach that allows for “apples-to-apples” comparisons. Breiling defines corporate aircraft as any airplane flown by a professional crew. For these types of operations, the fatal accident rate is 0.014 per 100,000 hours – which is nearly identical to that of the scheduled air carriers (0.012 per 100,000 hours). "

The entire article can be found here...
http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/safety/20041130.pdf

Would you like some hot sauce with that crow ??? If you're going to make uneducated, blanket, BS statements at least run a quick web search and get some facts.

The fatal accident rate for "corporate" (my definition, not yours) is .002 higher than scheduled Part 121 operations. Hardly anything to boast about on your part. Especially in light of the fact of the demanding nature of corporate flying. (International, Mountains, Non-Schedules, Long Hours, Short Runways, etc...)

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I don't know how he got his numbers, but what I do know is that I recall at least 3 corporate accidents in the past couple of years where they have failed to deice and people have been killed. Any significant 121 accidents you care to share with us in recent years? I don't recall very many that were pilot error since AAL ran it off the runway in LIT, and that was about 7 years ago. By the way, don't bring back the dead horse about the Pinnacle plane..that wasn't even a 121 flight.

 

[h25b]

I don't know how he got his numbers, but what I do know is that I recall at least 3 corporate accidents in the past couple of years where they have failed to deice and people have been killed. Any significant 121 accidents you care to share with us in recent years? I don't recall very many that were pilot error since AAL ran it off the runway in LIT, and that was about 7 years ago. By the way, don't bring back the dead horse about the Pinnacle plane..that wasn't even a 121 flight.

I know exactly how he gets his numbers. It's called research. He is using a very simple threshold of "any airplane flown by a professional crew"... Even you should be able to figure that out.

And yes, the PCL flight is fair game. Operated by a "professional" crew and would you like me to tell you how many "empty, repositioning" legs we have to do in corporate and can seem to pull off with out impressing each other with the "410 Club" ??? It's a bunch buddy... The only reason it wasn't a 121 flight was because dispatch couldn't figure out how to put 50 unsuspecting, paying, victims on board before the end of the business day...

Who gives a $hit about 3 accidents in recent years ?? Does that override the overall fatal accident rate ? NO..

You were the one that said, "the accident rates of corporate aviation versus 121 speak for themselves" when clearly they don't. The numbers don't BS quite they way you do.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

So no comment on the crashes the last few winters with corporate crews not deicing? Or examples of recent fatal 121 crashes that were pilot error? Come on, your disappointing me. Also, I'm working on a way to disprove your NBAA numbers, just haven't closed the gap yet.