I don't understand this type of landing.

[macfly]

its your duty to show her. In the end she will thank you.

 

[FN FAL]

In the end she will thank you.

As part of her punishment, she should...she needs the discipline.

 

[sbav8r]

I'm not sure what I just read in this thread. I feel like I just had some of FN FAL's supply. I'm confused.

Only at flight info could a conversation go from 3 point landings to something about Caravan X-wind landings to drug references to sexual innuendo. The worst part is, the poor kid's question was never answered. Gotta love it.

 

[Kream926]

first of all....avbug.....you still are my hero
second.....unanswered...you are a F**KING retard

please stop before you become a statistic


and i will guarantee he will make some fake quote of me saying something stupid of myself


again

UNANSWEred should win a DEE DEE DEE award

 

[Skyline]

Flare

UnAnswered

Big airplanes are basically the same as a 150 except on a larger scale with greater weight and momentum.

A big jet is flown with power on until just before touchdown. It makes for a stable and safer approach. Big planes can't recover very easily from large sink rates or other abnormalities like fast approach speeds or slow speeds.

When you practice a soft field landing it is similar to methods used to land a big jet. Power on throughout the approach untill just before touch down. Most small plane pilots are taught to fly the pattern with lower power settings and some are at idle. That makes for a steeper approach. If you did that with a big plane you would make a big hole on the end of the runway because you wouldn't be able to recover from the high sink rate at the bottom. FedEx lost a 727 due to that very thing.

Adding power will raise the nose of the plane making for a flatter attitude on approach and the "nose high" look that you see big jets have on approach.

Skyline

 

[nosehair]

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that if you took a conventional geared airplane, and a tricycle-geared airplane, and completely disregarded the configuration of the gear, both airplanes are landed basically the same way....in a nose-high attitude at a speed at or near stalling.

No, you are not wrong. We are talking a typical tricycle trainer. Nose high near stall landing attitude. If the tricycle had a tailwheel, the tailwheel would be touching down with the mains. This is the correct way to land a light airplane, and keep the nose up as long as possible. The nosewheel is a "Taxi-Gear" not a "Landing Gear".
Avbug must be talking about King Airs or something.
​

 

[TonyC]

Most small plane pilots are taught to fly the pattern with lower power settings and some are at idle. That makes for a steeper approach. If you did that with a big plane you would make a big hole on the end of the runway because you wouldn't be able to recover from the high sink rate at the bottom. FedEx lost a 727 due to that very thing.

That's news to us. Where did you hear about that?




.

 

[starvingcfi]

why not flare an AC 112/114? it's a trike.

 

[mar]

The original question

I know enough about the three point landing, but if anyone could describe this other, special, apparently magical way to land a large jet, I would greatly appreciate it.

I got a little lost there, for a second, but I think this is the original question, no?

The magical way to land a large jet...you're going to be so disappointed when I tell you the secret because like most secrets it's compensating for a weakness....

Actually two weaknesses:

1) The swept wing is very inefficient at low airspeeds and therefore you need much higher angles of attack (compared to straight wing aircraft) to generate sufficient lift.

2) As you know, some turbine engines take a while to "spool up" from idle to "go around" thrust. Therefore, in the interest of safety, it's become a matter of procedure to have the engines spooled up before 500 or 1000 feet. If you didn't, and needed to go around, the power wouldn't be there fast enough.

So, lots of lift required for approach speeds means high angle of attack on swept wing aircraft and the engines "should" be above idle in case of a go around.

Flare, brake, clear the runway, go to the hotel. Repeat tomorrow.

 

[UnAnswerd]

Because in a conventional gear (tail wheel) aircraft, you will sometiems do a wheel landing where you land on the mains first and then set the tail down. Most helpful in strong crosswinds and in conventional gear aircraft with limited forward visibility

Yes, but I wasn't talking about wheel landings. My post specifically referenced three point landings. Whether or not that term can really be applied in any way to an aircraft having a tricycle-gear setup, I don't know. But either way, it's pretty clear that Avbug will take into account every possible exception, every minute variation, and every irrelevant detail for the sake of arguing.

 

[UnAnswerd]

No, you are not wrong. We are talking a typical tricycle trainer. Nose high near stall landing attitude. If the tricycle had a tailwheel, the tailwheel would be touching down with the mains. This is the correct way to land a light airplane, and keep the nose up as long as possible.

Well that's kinda what I figured, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only person to think this.

Avbug must be talking about King Airs or something.

The world may never know...

 

[UnAnswerd]

A big jet is flown with power on until just before touchdown. It makes for a stable and safer approach. Big planes can't recover very easily from large sink rates or other abnormalities like fast approach speeds or slow speeds.

When you practice a soft field landing it is similar to methods used to land a big jet. Power on throughout the approach untill just before touch down. Most small plane pilots are taught to fly the pattern with lower power settings and some are at idle. That makes for a steeper approach. If you did that with a big plane you would make a big hole on the end of the runway because you wouldn't be able to recover from the high sink rate at the bottom. FedEx lost a 727 due to that very thing.

Adding power will raise the nose of the plane making for a flatter attitude on approach and the "nose high" look that you see big jets have on approach.

Such details were not evident to me, but no longer. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[UnAnswerd]

So, lots of lift required for approach speeds means high angle of attack on swept wing aircraft and the engines "should" be above idle in case of a go around.

I see what you're saying. So would it be correct to say that most jets/swept-wing aircraft fly much "flatter" approaches to land than does the typical 172???

I remember the last landing I did, about a week ago. I apparently lost too much altitude before reaching the runway, and ended up having to fly for quite a distance over the ground, almost level, with power on (obviously). When I was over the runway I cut the power. Even though I didn't intend to approach/land this way, it was without a doubt the shortest landing I ever made. I even got to take taxiway delta back to the ramp, never done it before. Is this basically how a swept-wing airplane lands all the time???

 

[avbug]

No, you are not wrong. We are talking a typical tricycle trainer. Nose high near stall landing attitude. If the tricycle had a tailwheel, the tailwheel would be touching down with the mains. This is the correct way to land a light airplane, and keep the nose up as long as possible. The nosewheel is a "Taxi-Gear" not a "Landing Gear".
Avbug must be talking about King Airs or something.

Unanswered lumped all aircraft into one, or at least, all light aircraft into one.

Conventional gear aircraft are landed both two point and three point, with two point being just as good as three, and often preferable. When two point, they're not landed nose up, but nose flat, often with forward pressure on the stick.

King Air's are landed just about like anything else with a nosewheel.

Three point landings, generally speaking, for nosewheel airplanes are destructive and poor airmanship.

 

[jknight8907]

I see what you're saying. So would it be correct to say that most jets/swept-wing aircraft fly much "flatter" approaches to land than does the typical 172???

I remember the last landing I did, about a week ago. I apparently lost too much altitude before reaching the runway, and ended up having to fly for quite a distance over the ground, almost level, with power on (obviously). When I was over the runway I cut the power. Even though I didn't intend to approach/land this way, it was without a doubt the shortest landing I ever made. I even got to take taxiway delta back to the ramp, never done it before. Is this basically how a swept-wing airplane lands all the time???

No. What you did is very unsafe, dragging it in with power. If your engine failed, you would end up in the grass. You must learn to recognize any adjustments your glidepath needs early enough that you can make adjustments so as to always be able to reach the runway at idle or no power.

 

[UnAnswerd]

No. What you did is very unsafe, dragging it in with power. If your engine failed, you would end up in the grass. You must learn to recognize any adjustments your glidepath needs early enough that you can make adjustments so as to always be able to reach the runway at idle or no power.

Well I certainly didn't do it intentionally. Funny thing is, instructor claimed it was a good landing...

 

[Kream926]

Well I certainly didn't do it intentionally. Funny thing is, instructor claimed it was a good landing...

then change instructor. if that was a good landing for him then he is probably milkin ya for money/time. has he not taught you how to use a VASI/PAPI??

 

[UnAnswerd]

has he not taught you how to use a VASI/PAPI??

Never heard of it.

















Just kidding! But I thought those were only used at night??? Either way, I don't recall ever seeing the projection units on approach, in all my 20 hours.

 

[gkrangers]

Never heard of it.

















Just kidding! But I thought those were only used at night??? Either way, I don't recall ever seeing the projection units on approach, in all my 20 hours.

Oh for crying outloud, enough people. Nobody is this much of a tool. Just ignore him.

 

[atrdriver]

Well I certainly didn't do it intentionally. Funny thing is, instructor claimed it was a good landing...

It may have been a good landing, but it was a poor approach. They are two different things. And VASI/PAPI units are on all the time, and are used day and night. If you haven't seen them during the day then you are either color blind or fixating.