I can't understand the low pay

[avbug]

I quit, saturday. The low pay I could live with. I didn't mind the heat, the smoke, the angry, impatient passengers. I didn't mind the long hours, the lack of respect, the dorky waiter-like uniforms, or the pressure. But all I ever asked was to be served a cake donut, and the bastards wouldn't do it.

Well they can kiss my gritty, unwashed backside. I'm going to go fly fires, and they can take a flying leap into the volcano of life.

Did that sound good? I mean, was it too much. Cause, I can, like tone it down a little if it didn't. I mean, I don't want to make nobody upset or nothing. You know, like, really. I just want to get along, but do you think it sounded good? I think it sounded good. I'm going to spring it on them tomorrow. Unless it didn't sound good. Too strong? I don't know. I thought it sounded good.

I really did quit on Saturday.

Now, how many of you heros who keep talking about how if pilots would quit and stand up to management, we wouldn't see the low wages, are willing to follow suit??

Hmmm. Didn't think so. All talk, and no play.

 

[metrodriver]

Avbug, there probably is a line forming of people where you worked who will do it for less than you were, they will even bring donuts everyday for everyone after they get hired

 

[avbug]

The rat bastards. I don't care if they take my job, but if they get the donuts, I'll come back and beat the living snot out of every single one of them with a printer cable and a box of stale krispy kremes.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I really did quit on Saturday.

Now, how many of you heros who keep talking about how if pilots would quit and stand up to management, we wouldn't see the low wages, are willing to follow suit??

Hmmm. Didn't think so. All talk, and no play.

Avbug,

I walked the walk. I haven't flown a revenue flight for Delta in over a year! Since they told me they weren't going to pay me, I told them I wouldn't come in any more. Sure it was tough, but sometimes you have to make a stand!

1310 of us really showed them. They'll think twice before they mess with us again!

 

[KickSave]

Re: mean spirited post?

Nobody in real life goes from 19K a year to 90K a year in 5 or six years. If they do, they don't deserve it and should be replaced by freedom air or great sky airlines.

I went from $19K to $90K in real life in six years in in the computer biz from 92 to 98. But at age 34, I had the stroke of genius to change careers from one industry(tech) that has laid off 1/4 of it's employees to the other industry (flying) that has laid off 1/4 of it's employees. What was I thinking?

Oh I remember now, I just wanted to fly planes for a living. I even recall saying I would do it for $19K a year if it meant getting to the next level. Guess that makes me part of the problem. I apologize for that

 

[enigma]

Re: Re: mean spirited post?

Oh I remember now, I just wanted to fly planes for a living. I even recall saying I would do it for $19K a year if it meant getting to the next level. Guess that makes me part of the problem. I apologize for that

KickSave, What information did you have about flying as a career? What were your expectations, and why did you have them? Did you believe that there was a pot of gold at rainbows end? If so, why did you believe that to be true? Did you understand the nature of the business?, its ups and downs?,

No trick questions, I'm just trying to find out if you were fooled by the pilot shortage pimps, or if you were fully informed and still were willing to enter into indentured servitude. BTW, I was also willing to work for little in order to have a shot at the top. I had no idea what the industry was really like. My generation had FAPA to blame. I never gave them any money, but my fellow CFI's did. We were all very misinformed about the career.

regards,
enigma

 

[KickSave]

Enigma, the reality is, I knew exactly what I was getting into, that I would have to spend quite a while paying my dues and eating top ramen twice a day. I did make the decision and get my loan and start down this path shortly before 9/11, so things have changed somewhat since I first did my research and made the call. I am a little frustrated that my timing isn't as good as it could be. But the CFI who did my private, who is now ready to be hired but has no good opportunies at this time, gave me some good advice - these tough times will just weed out the weak. There WILL be jobs in this biz again sometime. The 55+ crew will be retiring, the economy will hopefully pick up, gas prices are on the way back down. Black Monday in Oct 1987 caused a lot of people to jump off the ledge, but those who stuck it out were back to where they started a year or two later. Commercial aviation has a future, I want to be a part of that, and I don't expect to make $90K in the next six years either. I'll settle for being able to eat three squares a day.


However, there is a reason why a new, 1500 hour pilot would work for $19K as a regional FO, it's to GET to the next level. A 5000 hour former major FO who takes that same job while he/she is on furlough must approach it from a different perspective. You don't need to build hours for $19K. If you have a wife and kids, you have to feed them somehow. If she can support you, then that's different. But without knowing Wifeofpilot's specifics and details, all I can say is, it's a simple matter of supply and demand. Supply and demand equations rarely stay stagnant for long periods of time. Right now, supply far exceeds demand. Two and a half years ago, the situation was the opposite. I imagine its possible the situation can reverse itself all over again in two and a half years from now as well.

I might still be misinformed today, but this is what I want to do, I didn't enter this industry for the money. I was making much better money as a computer nerd. This is what I want to do, so I'll accept whatever fate (and salary) has in store for me, knowing that nothing worth having ever came easy.

 

[Cadillac]

Pilot Compensation

This is one of the most important/useful threads I have seen in awhile.
The low pay is hard to believe, unless you believe as most pilots and pilots in training do that it is an "entry position" with a quick upgrade to captain, and then a jump to the majors where the real money rolls in. This myth is perpetuated by the "airlilne pilot shortage scammers" as Enigma put it.

I got into this industry believing this pro da, and I'm slowly finding out that it is not the case. Which leaves me and other up-and-coming airline pilots with the choices of 1) leaving the industry and all that we've invested so far. 2) staying and doing what we can to raise wages. or 3) staying and working for these pitiful wages (or even undercutting them). I intend to go with number 2. Now we need to find a way to do it.

One way is to not go to work for some of the lowest airlines with salarys that are allowing them to undercut higher paying regionals and take their flying. A variant of this is to not pay-for-training or paying for the job as some pilots at some airlines are resorting to. This is the extent I can do to help so far, (other than bullying and intimidating any career-minded students I see out of flying to reduce the number of total pilots )

If I ever get to a regional, then it will be time to find other methods to increase pay. Voting against TA's that ask for concessions, and participating in strikes sound like the way to do it, I only hope I have the courage when the time comes. It sounds easy now, but we'll see when I get there and there are thousands of starry-eyed interns and academy grads waiting to replace me for 12K a year.

As far as the effectiveness of strikes, I have to question that as well. I've seen the spreading out of the mainline flying to multiple regionals that would prevent a single striking airline from having the industry-wide effect it would need to promote a change. I've also yet to see two or more regional airlines contracts come up for renegotiation at the same time. The probability of another successful Comair-type strike resulting in higher wages/conditions may not happen.

That leaves us with finding some other method, perhaps a national, unified regional pilot association that can collectively address the situation to the airlines (who will probably laugh us out of the boardroom) or maybe more successfully, congress. Maybe I'm dreaming. But if its illegal for us to strike while under a legal contract, and a strike during contract negotiations results in no effect, what other options are there?

Concluding this amazingly long rant, I do have hope that this message board will allow unity and discussion from members of ALL regionals, which might result in a workable solution.

 

[Freight Dog]

However, there is a reason why a new, 1500 hour pilot would work for $19K as a regional FO, it's to GET to the next level.

I might still be misinformed today, but this is what I want to do, I didn't enter this industry for the money. I was making much better money as a computer nerd. This is what I want to do, so I'll accept whatever fate (and salary) has in store for me, knowing that nothing worth having ever came easy.

KickSave, you may not be aware, but the supply of major airline jobs has dwindled quite a bit and will most likely stay that way. There IS no NEXT LEVEL. Once you get to the regionals and fly a 70 seat jet, that's it. Don't expect the majors to be hiring. If you look at the boom, it's all in RJ's. Why? Pay/work rules/retirement disparity. Some people will talk it down, but the reality is that the majors flew DC-9's, F-28's and so on for a major-like wage. We now have regional pilots flying 50-90 seat jets literally SETTLING for poverty-wages/slave work rules/no retirement. Look at Mesa for example. For what? Next level? What next level? This is just market forces at work. Major airlines are becoming widebody-only operations flying across both ponds, while regionals are replacing mainline narrowbodies at a pretty alarming rate. What next level are you talking about? SWA, or JetBlue simply don't have enough positions for all those RJ guys who are working for slave wages in order to "get to the next level."

However, you are in a unique position along with thousands of other regional pilots. The sooner you realize that there IS no next level, the sooner you make the stand to improve wages and be 100% willing to walk away from your job if they don't, the sooner you will make regionals a career place and create that "next level" on your level.

 

[wifeofpilot]

Exactly my point. When those poverty wages were agreed to many probably thought, hey, I can live with that for a year or less. Upgrade was fast, majors hiring like crazy. Well that is not the case anymore and I too believe regionals will be a long term career choice.

Think about our situation, let's say my husband is on the RJ for the next 8-10 years before major recalls him. It will be a really hard decision to leave a captain slot with seniority for being last place at the major.