How's that Lynx thing working out?

[dash_trash]

...
2. And I have a chance to win the lottery and go out with Terri Hatcher too.

If you win the lottery ... she may go out with you.:laugh:

 

[siucavflight]

Ya, because the Q400 is going to be taking over the A319's mountain destinations...tard.

Mainline pilots are all too good to fly turbo-props anyway. Just ask AA flow-backs, not a single one flowed back into a turbo-prop at eagle.

Ha, the uninformed continue to amaze me. Letter 3 did not allow the flowbacks to go into a prop.

 

[jetalc]

Wow, I'm hurt that someone would think that I want anything but the best for an outfit conjured up to whipsaw a mainline pilot group with pilots being paid a fraction of the going rates for the equipment they're in.

L! Y! N! X! Lynx!Lynx!Lynx!

You might want to try and verify your facts before making such an obvious and bitter little blunder. What you stated is entirely incorrect.

 

[DashTrash400]

You might want to try and verify your facts before making such an obvious and bitter little blunder. What you stated is entirely incorrect.

What'd you expect from a 'tard?

But seriously, what part is incorrect? That they're being paid a fraction of the going rates?

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/horizon_air.html

Or that they're a whipsaw against mainline? Well, for sure there's a big@ss gap between a 76 seat Q400 and a A319...but if you don't think that depressed rates on smaller equipment doesn't put downward pressure on rates for larger equipment, you haven't been paying attention the last six years.

 

[jetalc]

What'd you expect from a 'tard?

But seriously, what part is incorrect? That they're being paid a fraction of the going rates?

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/horizon_air.html

Or that they're a whipsaw against mainline? Well, for sure there's a big@ss gap between a 76 seat Q400 and a A319...but if you don't think that depressed rates on smaller equipment doesn't put downward pressure on rates for larger equipment, you haven't been paying attention the last six years.

I have been paying attention for the last 25+ years, and I certainly don't like the downward trend that airlines seem to feel justified in paying pilots either. That said, there seem to be two issues that are incorrect, in my humble opinion:

1. The pay: it's a startup airline. Virgin America is paying their pilots squat, largely because of the high costs associated with starting an airline - costs that we, over at mainline, are painfully feeling. I agree that, eventually, the pilots should be paid more, but please keep in mind that Horizon has been around quite a bit longer than little ol' Lynx, which doesn't even have a certificate, thanks in part, as I understand it, to some vindictive behavior by our wonderful and ever-so-progressive FAA. Ah, the ignorant bliss of being a powerful government organization with relatively no oversight. But I digress.

2. Whipsawing mainline: this was a fear at the beginning, when F9 management announced this "wonderful moneymaker for F9" with essentially no scope clause in effect. While F9 management had the ABILITY to whipsaw the groups, there were statements made by management that they had "no intention of doing so." Without taking management's word for it, FAPA (the mainline pilots' union) negotiated a scope clause that is about as airtight as a scope clause can be, and it was approved by the pilots of F9 mainline. The merits of the scope clause have since been debated, but in any case, there was no whipsawing that went on.

I am quickly growing weary of blatant statements made with the intent of launching grenades, not making accurate statements or even expressing a simple opinion. Tard is a prime example of this, and I would strongly suggest counseling. Not every airline is as dysfunctional as the one he is apparently working for, nor are all pilots bitter and angry.

 

[T-prop]

Ha, the uninformed continue to amaze me. Letter 3 did not allow the flowbacks to go into a prop.

exactly, not only did it not allow them to. They didn't even want to try to negotiate for that right. Too proud

Ironically, at eagle I preferred to fly with flow-backs over senior eagle CA's; who were, in large part, mentally "imbalanced"

 

[regionaltard]

I have been paying attention for the last 25+ years......

...and you're still not able to understand the implications of $50 (those are 2007 dollars btw) "captains" flying 70 seat aircraft? Ask SW how they did against those same aircraft (flown by crews earning a fair wage) in the SEA-GEG market.

You seem willing to take a statement by airline managers that they will not use economic leverage that they possess against a pilot group at face value. Maybe age 65 will buy you enough time to figure things out.

 

[jetalc]

...and you're still not able to understand the implications of $50 (those are 2007 dollars btw) "captains" flying 70 seat aircraft? Ask SW how they did against those same aircraft (flown by crews earning a fair wage) in the SEA-GEG market.

You seem willing to take a statement by airline managers that they will not use economic leverage that they possess against a pilot group at face value. Maybe age 65 will buy you enough time to figure things out.

Did you even read my post? I can't believe I'm actually falling for this ridiculous tripe, but here it goes.

I believe the low hourly wage is because of the startup nature of the airline. Do you understand that? Is that a little too complex for you to grasp? I am in no way justifying the low wage as a permanent one, simply justifying it for now. It will go up, I am confident. I believe I used Virgin America as an example.

You stated that Lynx was there to whipsaw - how can you justify your assertion? Were you there? I was, and no, management's statement was NOT taken at face value, so the union got busy with a scope. Did you forget that part of my post? A little attention to detail might do you good.

I will not resort to personal attacks - stick to the facts, and keep your slander to yourself. It might be entertaining for you to get under people's skin - I have a hard time believing you are speaking from such a "broad knowledge base" except for that reason alone, and it's, quite frankly, a little pathetic.

 

[climb2slow]

First off, i think the current payrates at Lynx suck. Yes that's a technical term. But, keep in mind that this is in fact a new aircraft to a new airline. This pilot group will surely unionize within a year of their startup. At that time they will have the ability to seek higher pay and better benefits going forward. I can't totally compare it to the Jetblue scenario, but i seem to recall when the A320 rates were first announced there, they were well below the market rates at the time....and when the company established profitibility, the pilots got compensated with higher wages. Was there a guarantee? no...but management followed through on their promise to re-evaluate the pay.
Consequently, when the 190 rates were introduced, once again below market value, the pilots didn't cry foul because there was precedent that management would adjust pay once operating costs were established.
And back to Lynx, while there is no guarantee that management will adjust the payrates of the pilots down the line, they will certainly attempt to prevent unionization of the workforce, and improving quality of life items are common tactics to do this.
I seem to remember not that long ago at F9 mainline...back in 1998-1999 that captains made a salary of 50,000 and FO's made about 30,000. Now, bottom captain pay is in the 120's...
I suspect that if you want to live in denver, fly to the mountains, and don't mind the pain of a startup...lynx will be a good place to work.

 

[siucavflight]

exactly, not only did it not allow them to. They didn't even want to try to negotiate for that right. Too proud

Ironically, at eagle I preferred to fly with flow-backs over senior eagle CA's; who were, in large part, mentally "imbalanced"

Why would they negoiate to fly something that would pay them on average 20K less a year????
And I agree with you, many of our "senior lifers" are imbalanced!

 

[T-prop]

Why would they negoiate to fly something that would pay them on average 20K less a year????
And I agree with you, many of our "senior lifers" are imbalanced!

ATR CA pays more than EMB 135 and 140, the 140 slowly overtakes ATR CA after the 7th year and the 135 overtakes after year 13.

My point is, NO US MAINLINE OPERATES TURBOPROPS NOR HAVE THEY FOR DECADES. The ATR-72 turboprop (64/66 seats) was flying for a LONG time at regionals before scope was STUBBORNLY given up for 37-50 seat regional jets.

Now, a few people (Kaman) think that a 74 seat turbo-prop belongs at a mainline and Republic E-175 flying under Frontier is perfectly normal. I guess, I am just not following the logic.

 

[Cloud F9]

It's been a little while since my last post... so here is the latest from the inside at Lynx: We have been busy finalizing the 'phase 2' portion and we will start flying our new planes next Monday in preparation for proving run practice. We are taking delivery of 4 more planes this month (total of 6 thus far) while the remaining 4 continue to be built. It looks like the proving runs will begin the first week of Nov (possibly earlier) and certification a couple weeks after. Hopefully just in time for Thanksgiving! We still retain all 10 options with plans to exercise them in 2008.

As far as pilots go - Lynx is still hiring CAs and FOs. Just hired #63 total pilots with 10 more starting on Oct 15. 100+ pilots needed for the 10 aircraft. Those of you that are interested- please email your resume to [email protected] . They are conducting interviews this week and next. The classes should slow down in Nov for holidays and available sim time. Get your resume in if you are on the fence. Come see what Lynx has to offer for you.

My experience here has been impressive. The management knows you by name- The staff here is collectively dedicated to making this airline work and building a great place to call home. I have enjoyed working with everyone and the atmosphere is a positive one - despite the setback and delays that are out of their control. We continue to bring on talented and experienced people that add their expertise where needed without hesitation

>> I can only see the upcoming flame response about the pay... so let me say that YES it is below industry... and YES it will be addressed soon. All focus is to get certified and start bringing IN money otherwise... We feel confident that our situation is appreciated by management. I bet that when Frontier relaunched in the early 90s - they had the similar concerns then... but now look at the pilot group! You gotta start somewhere.

I believe the underlining nature of these forums is to help our peers... and not just complain and throw rocks. (fun at times though!) As with any career decisions - do gather as much info and find what suites your situation. Best of luck to all - as the industry has come a long way since 2001.

~ M.P.