How to whore myself out?

[mcjohn]

Does ERAU make up the stuff it teaches? Scan it please.

 

[wt219200]

A Squared you do seem a little stand offish

you make it sound like an argument not a discussion

 

[A Squared]

I actually have a commercial study packet with all the information of what exactly holding out is, and common carriage, and private carriage If I had a scanner I'd be happy to show you it.

What exactly is a "commercial study packet"? I'm betting that it did not originate with FAA legal Counsel. I'd be interested to see what it says, but I'm skeptical there's anything of official status that supports what you say.

I'm guessing what you have is some stuff your school put together, in which case it has about hte same validity as "my instructor told me......"

The thing is, many instructors and many flight schools teach things which are just not true.

The idea that advertising pilot services is illegal is a myth, a persistent myth, but a myth nonetheless. I'm not particularly surprised that your flight school is teaching that myth, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[A Squared]

A Squared you do seem a little stand offish

you make it sound like an argument not a discussion

Well I apologize for that. I tend to lose patience when folks just jump into a discussion and contradict what has been said, apparently without bothering to read and understand the preceeding discussion. If you read the entire thread, I've backed up my view on the matter with official documentation and a fairly thourough explanation of why pilot services is not commercial carriage (also backed up with official documentation). If DJROBBIO had posted some explanation of why he believed any of this is incorrect, I'd be happy to discuss it with him. Mybe I'd learn somethin. But instead, he merely reiterates the notion that advertising pilot services is illegal, which adds nothing that hasn't already been stated (incorrectly) many times. I also take a rather dim view if posting "excerpts" from the regulations which do not exist. I don't know how you do that accidentally. Perhaps you're right, maybe I should smile sweetly, and explain once again why this is a myth, But i have a though time doing that. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect somone to read and understand the discussion already posted ,and address that, rather than merely repost the same unupported statements which were posted in the first couple of posts on the thread.

I'm all for discussions, even arguments. I do however get tired of repetetive contradictions which don't advance the discussion. Do you appreciate the difference?

 

[mcjohn]

What do think are the most common myths in aviation regs. beyond this holding out stuff. This list could be interesting. Also, where did this "holding out" phrase originate from? Where is it printed in an FAA document?

 

[DJRobbioRobbio]

What exactly is a "commercial study packet"? I'm betting that it did not originate with FAA legal Counsel. I'd be interested to see what it says, but I'm skeptical there's anything of official status that supports what you say.

I'm guessing what you have is some stuff your school put together, in which case it has about hte same validity as "my instructor told me......"

The thing is, many instructors and many flight schools teach things which are just not true.

The idea that advertising pilot services is illegal is a myth, a persistent myth, but a myth nonetheless. I'm not particularly surprised that your flight school is teaching that myth, but that doesn't make it true.

Commercial Study Packet includes:

*Basic FAR's pertaining to Commercial pilots
*Aeromedical Factors
*McCauley Constant Speed Propeller diagram/ schematic
*30 ERAU Drafted Comm. Pilot EOC Questions
*Oxygen systems as described/ pertaining to 91.211
*Diagram describing the different prop conditions (over/under/on speed)
*FAA AC 120-12A on Private Carriage vs. Common Carriage of Persons or Property
*Pilot's 'decision' schedule [ie. a go or no-go checklist]

In all it's about 25-30 pages thick. When I have time I'll just type up that whole FAR's section and link it for all to see, so I can prove that I'm not bull********************ting anybody about what I'm learning.

 

[mcjohn]

So it's an AC. We can link to that. Anyone willing to dig it up? I'd like to get to the bottom of this! I've witnessed many arguements on this one.

I would but I'm out of time.

 

[DJRobbioRobbio]

So it's an AC. We can link to that. Anyone willing to dig it up? I'd like to get to the bottom of this! I've witnessed many arguements on this one.

I would but I'm out of time.

Also the FAR's make no definition of holding out, only a mere reference to it in 119.3 as a part of non-common carriage.

Find it here

Here is that AC I was mentioning earlier
here

 

[gkrangers]

I don't know what the dispute is.

Holding out in regard to common carriage? Can't do it.

Holding out in regard to providing pilot services? Thats fine and legal, despite what the Riddle packet says.

 

[AC560]

Also the FAR's make no definition of holding out, only a mere reference to it in 119.3 as a part of non-common carriage.

Find it here

Here is that AC I was mentioning earlier
here

Noncommon carriage means an aircraft operation for compensation or hire that does not involve a holding out to others.

You can't advertise an aircraft operation (domestic, charter, cargo, etc.) you can advertise your services. Look the Sunday paper and there are plenty of ad's for CFI's advertising their services.

 

[A Squared]

I don't know what the dispute is.

Holding out in regard to common carriage? Can't do it.

Holding out in regard to providing pilot services? Thats fine and legal, despite what the Riddle packet says.

Bingo. It's that simple.

 

[A Squared]

Noncommon carriage means an aircraft operation for compensation or hire that does not involve a holding out to others.

You can't advertise an aircraft operation (domestic, charter, cargo, etc.) you can advertise your services. Look the Sunday paper and there are plenty of ad's for CFI's advertising their services.

Yep, another one who gets it.

 

[A Squared]

Also, where did this "holding out" phrase originate from? Where is it printed in an FAA document?

As mentined, you'll find it in part 119 and AC120-12A

In both cases it is used to establish whether carriage for hire is common carriage or private carriage. It has nothing to do at all with pilot service.

 

[Indy refugee]

When I finally got regional minimums (about 7 years ago), I sent out about 30-40 resumes. I'm sure the FAA would consider that 'holding out'. I then got a job flying Jetstreams and CRJs. All of that with an COMM MEL. I'd better get all that illegal time out of my logbook. Does anybody know how I can build 3-4000 hours of multi, turbine without holding out? Oops, did I just 'hold out' again??

The confusion, it seems to me, is between pilot and operator. A pilot can offer any service he likes as long as he doesn't do so as an operator(ie provide transportation(airplane & pilot)). Otherwise, what's the point of a commercial pilot's license?

 

[HS125]

Commercial Study Packet includes:

*Basic FAR's pertaining to Commercial pilots
*Aeromedical Factors
*McCauley Constant Speed Propeller diagram/ schematic
*30 ERAU Drafted Comm. Pilot EOC Questions
*Oxygen systems as described/ pertaining to 91.211
*Diagram describing the different prop conditions (over/under/on speed)
*FAA AC 120-12A on Private Carriage vs. Common Carriage of Persons or Property
*Pilot's 'decision' schedule [ie. a go or no-go checklist]

In all it's about 25-30 pages thick. When I have time I'll just type up that whole FAR's section and link it for all to see, so I can prove that I'm not bull********************ting anybody about what I'm learning.

Sure am glad that I'm not waisting good money at ERAU.

 

[Skyboy722]

A Squared,
That was the most thorough spanking I have seen on here in a while. And in reading this thread, I have effectively doubled the amount of FAR's that I have actually read...