How to whore myself out?

[onthebeach]

It seems pretty simple to me.

If you are no longer interested in making aviation your career, AND you have $1000 a month in debts you must pay, then you should stop spending time on this board and/or hanging around airports on weekends in an almost certainly unproductive search for ways to either violate FARs or further cheapen my profession (if that's possible).

Instead I recommend you spend your time looking for, and obtaining, two or three steady, productive jobs so that you can pay your debts.

And here's another piece of advice, unrelated but thrown in for free: When you do finally get out of debt, make better career training choices in the future, because what you've done in the past obviously hasn't worked out well for you.

 

[Flying Ninja]

Woah. Give the guy a break - he's not talking about flying for Mesa or Gulfstream (as an FO) - he just wants to hobby fly at a "local airport" and wants to know the legality of doing so.

That said, you're absolutely right!

Thanks for staying focused on the direction I was trying to go with this. I am most certainly not trying to cheapen the profession since I seriously doubt flying 180 horse power pistons is in any way in competition to jet pilots flying CRJs or better. You're right. I do need a refresher. Since the only thing I learned in Commercial ground school with CAPT is don't advertise like an airline and you're fine. Two weeks of ground school and that's what they taught me. Thanks for answering my inquiry.

BOHICAgain, I don't want to have anything to do with CAPT anymore. I hope management over there die a slow death so that one day I can visit their graves and piss on it on a regular basis. Those folks got my money and I got an ass beating. I'm going to call it even before I get arrested.

CA1900, I'm getting back into the computer industry. And to retort on your remark on cheapening the profession, people in my industry do provide services for free. It's called freeware and open source software. And it's only improved on the way people interact, collaborate, and be productive. So I hate to rain on your parade, but it seems that people doing free services in aviation creates a lot of tension. While elsewhere in the world, it's considered noble (volunteer firemen, nurses, software developers, etc.). I'll tell ya, this aviation industry is fracked up to mold people in thinking that doing something free is a bad thing. Where else does the word FREE not jive in other aspects of life?

When you do finally get out of debt, make better career training choices in the future, because what you've done in the past obviously hasn't worked out well for you.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

 

[A Squared]

(Squared - you wrote "You can even hold out toe the public to do so." - I think you meant that you can let people know that you'll fly them in their airplanes).

No, I meant exactly what I said. There is nothing in the phrase “hold out to the public” which gives it meaning beyond the simple meaning of the words. It’s a simple phrase that by itself carries no explicit or implicit reference to air transportation. By itself, it only means advertising, or by other means letting the public know that you are willing to provide services. You may “hold out to the public” for lawn maintenance, you may “hold out to the public” for snow removal. If you have a commercial certificate out may “hold out to the public” for professional pilot services. If you hold an instructor’s certificate, you may “hold out to the public” for flight training.

You may not, however, hold out to the public for air transportation services without an appropriate operating certificate.

I make this distinction because somehow the phrase “hold out to the public” often is assigned a meaning beyond its actual meaning (your post, for example). It leads to the misunderstanding that to “hold out to the public” in any way is prohibited. I have actually seen folks post that you can’t advertise for flight instruction, because that is “holding out to the public”.

 

[McNugget]

Does anyone have any information or clarification on FARs regarding someone who is interested in whoring himself out as a pilot? Basically, I'm looking to fly on the weekends (out and backs) but I don't have any money to do so. My credentials:

Private ASEL, AMEL
Commercial ASEL, AMEL
Instrument
459TT/101ME

I was thinking of putting myself out there around the local airports to let people know that I'm willing to provide free pilot services. Would the FAA look at this type of flying as "compensation" even though I'm not looking to make a penny? If someone asks me to fly their airplane from point A to point B, would I fall under the "pro-rata share" regulation even though I'd be exercising my Commercial privileges but hire for free? It never occured to me to ask back in the training days if you can exercise your Commercial privileges but being compensated for free. I know this sounds ridiculous but I'm just looking for creative ways to go out flying for someone for free. Thanks for any responses.

One thing I did, when working on my instrument rating, was spend a summer fueling airplanes for the local FBO in exchange for flight time. I just worked on Saturday and Sunday so the other guys could have a day off. They paid me an hourly amount into a flight account and I was able to use the airplanes whenever I wanted to. It saved me a ton of $$ and time, because I was able to do my commercial quickly under part 61 with 250 hours TT, instead of taking the 141 course. Anyway, maybe this could help you get your CFI cheap if you only have to pay the instructor for their time and then you can start making $$ to fly. Good luck.

 

[Flying Ninja]

Thanks McNugget for the fuel guy for flight idea. I'm really not interested in making money flying airplanes. And I certainly don't want to be sitting right seat telling some guy "more right rudder" and not flying the plane outside of a 15 NM radius from the airport.

 

[Stealthh21]

Hey man, just to let you know. I think what killed you on this thread was it's title. "How to whore myself out?" I mean come on man. You were asking for some crap feedback. If you want some casual flight time that is one thing, but at first glance i thought you were timebuilding for free. And unlike the computer industry, pilot wages are going down, almost on a daily basis. Mainly because of people willing to work for less money.

Good luck!

 

[IHateMgmt]

Thanks McNugget for the fuel guy for flight idea. I'm really not interested in making money flying airplanes. And I certainly don't want to be sitting right seat telling some guy "more right rudder" and not flying the plane outside of a 15 NM radius from the airport.

ARGGGHHH!!!

Is anyone else as sick to death as I am of people who don't know a dang thing about flight instructing use the phrase, "more right rudder"!?!

Flying Ninja, your ignorance of aviation is alarmingly large. If this is any indication of your flying skills, I would strongly suggest you go to a real flight school before you even think of flying other people's planes around. Oh really? Your zero-to-hero fast-track BS flight school didn't give you quality instruction? What fricken shocker! As always, you get what you pay for.

Now, sorry if that seemed a little harsh, but to be quite frank, you deserved it. You originally posted looking for the advice from more experienced professionals (which is admirable) so I will give you my 2 cents. I would have to say that onthebeach is spot-right-on with what to focus on in your immediate future. You gotta pay the bills, and trust me, aviation ain't gonna do that for a long time. If you still have the flying bug after you get your financial situation under control, I would suggest one of two options depending on how well you did with your primary career.

If financially able, go find a reputable part 61 flight school. Find an instructor there who has been around for a while. The senior flight instructor is usually a good place to start. Tell him/her about the quality of your previous training and say you would like to bring your flying skills and knowledge up to where they should be and then progress to the CFI.

If you are financially unable (flying ain't cheap) to do that, then take McNugget's advice. Pumping gas is a great way to get on the inside of the industry. You'll get contacts, flight time, an additional income, and some street smarts while you're at it.

Good luck with what you do.

IHM

 

[nosehair]

it seems that people doing free services in aviation creates a lot of tension. While elsewhere in the world, it's considered noble (volunteer firemen, nurses, software developers, etc.). I'll tell ya, this aviation industry is fracked up to mold people in thinking that doing something free is a bad thing. Where else does the word FREE not jive in other aspects of life?

Consider this: Firemen, nurses, software developers, etc., all get a very decent salary and relatively stable position with benefits. And there are not enough of them. Firemen and nurses,that is; I can't say about software developers, but the point is that these well paid professions welcome the volunteer helper - because there are not enough, and they are not infringing upon the livleyhood of the profession. It is a noble thing to do.

That is not the case at all in the aviation business; there must be 100 guys out there for every job, and they are willing to accept less than a fast-food employees take-home pay to do it. Partly because of people who will do it for free. There is no shortage of pilots. It is not noble to take this kid's only way of scratching up through the ranks to get a mediocre paying job.

 

[minitour]

I am most certainly not trying to cheapen the profession since I seriously doubt flying 180 horse power pistons is in any way in competition to jet pilots flying CRJs or better.

You're right.

Flying a 180 horse piston isn't competing with the "jet pilots flying CRJs or better", but what about us piston pilots that are trying to make a living doing this?

Do you know how many jobs some commercial pilots have to hold down to make it in this industry because some punk decides to spend thousands of dollars obtaining a certificate only to decide to provide commercial pilot services for FREE!?

Why don't you just make up a flyer advertising your services to fly an old guy around in his (insert favorite 180hp piston here) whenever he needs to for $___ per day plus expenses? Then if you get offers, you know you've got a market, a good price and back it up with a good product (which means saying "no" if the conditions warrant). If you don't get offers, then it's time to re-think one of those things.

Is it price? Well if you're charging $500/day to fly a Seminole, yah...it's price.

Is it Market? You tell me! How many people that own small pistons need a pilot? Not many, but some.

Is it the fact that you didn't back it up with a good product? If you advertise or let ANYONE know that you'll fly them for free, you could be in for this. People (especially that have the money to buy an airplane) usually are smart enough to realize you get what you pay for. They want a quality pilot that will keep them and their passengers safe, not the cheapest thing going...generally.

Seriously, if you're going to do it, please make some money at it. That IS why you became a commercial pilot, right?

Plus, think about it this way. Say you start ferrying airplanes on weekends. Let's assume, to make it easy you charge $250/day plus expenses. If you fly twice a month (two saturdays), you have half of your loan paid off...if you fly four times a month, then you've made your loan payment and you did it by doing something YOU ENJOY! Bonus, right? If you get stuck somewhere and end up going Sat-Sun, yeah it sucks because your weekend is gone, but you get put up in a sweet hotel, meals paid, fly some cool stuff (along with some nasty stuff...take the good with the bad), and now you made $500....half of your loan for maybe 6-9 hours of flying? Sounds like a good deal to me!

I know you said you don't want to make money flying, but hell...if you're going to b!tch about your $1000/month loan payment, at least do something about it!

-mini

 

[SIG600]

Come on dude, everyone stop posting these will fly for free posts. Go get your CFI and fly your a$$ off and have fun, and make a few bucks while your at it. I built up over 1600 hours in a year and half of flight instructing and 300 hours of multi-engine as a MEI. Best thing I ever did! Now, if you don't want to instruct then I don't know what to tell ya there guy. Remember there's no short cuts unless you pay for it with alot of money.

Concur. I spent a few years as a CFI and thouroughly enjoyed it. You'll never know something as well as when you teach it. I haven't given an hour of instruction in years but keep my ticket current, and I fully plan on teaching again in the future.