How to Properly Land a C-172.....

[DCAinstructor06]

Do I hear IP's are teaching to land power on? I have never heard of such a thing and never made a power on landing until I started flying the P-3. Yes during the early stages of teaching to land with power on as per above, but I would never solo a student who could not make a good landing when cutting the power at the threashold.

I agree, I won't solo a student unless I can pull their motor in the pattern (base or DW) and have them bring the aircraft to a safe landing somewhere on the runway. I teach both, power on and power off. After all if they can't land with power on, they are in trouble when the winds get nasty.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Maintain about 70 knots on final and crossing the threshold you should be about 65 knots. Keep the aiming point in your window and just point the plane towards this mark. Your focus should be just over the nose aiming for your touchdown point. When you get about 10-15 feet above the runway begin to slowly pitch the nose up. What you're essentially trying to do is prevent the plane from landing by holding it off. As you begin to pitch up, slowly move your line of sight focus from the touchdown point to the end of the runway and horizon. At this point you should be looking far ahead and feeling the plane sink. You'll feel the descent and see it in your peripheral vision. Continue to try to hold the plane off the ground as you flare.

Getting the landing right just takes practice. It's one of those things that one day it will suddenly click - and you'll begin to understand what it is you're supposed to be doing.

 

[skiandsurf]

I agree, I won't solo a student unless I can pull their motor in the pattern (base or DW) and have them bring the aircraft to a safe landing somewhere on the runway. I teach both, power on and power off. After all if they can't land with power on, they are in trouble when the winds get nasty.

Before I would solo a student....I would have the students close their eyes as I fly the plane. I would bring down next to the runway over the grass ( this at an uncontrolled airport). Then I would tell them to look at where they are, take the controls back, and maneuver the plane to land.

This gives both of us confidence in the students understanding and ability.

 

[DCAinstructor06]

Before I would solo a student....I would have the students close their eyes as I fly the plane. I would bring down next to the runway over the grass ( this at an uncontrolled airport). Then I would tell them to look at where they are, take the controls back, and maneuver the plane to land.

This gives both of us confidence in the students understanding and ability.

huh??? This demonstrates what? You want to up their confidence, Can their motor at 700 feet when climbing straight out. IF they remember to turn around and can make the runway safely, buy them a steak dinner. I would actually do this in the simulator with the weather at 1/2mile and 100ftovc. The sharp ones were able to intercept the backcourse and actually make the runway. The rest of the sheep just crashed straight ahead into the abyss.

 

[unreal]

Hi...

Just how is it done??? How do you properly land a C-172???
This week I went for my lesson. It was my first time in a C-172 SuperHawk....Big difference. This thing just wanted to haul A$$!

It begs to get off the ground! Anyways, I had trouble getting it back to the ground... I was told or have heard several times to land a C-172 that you have to stall it...Is this true? I have found this difficult in all the other Cessnas I've flown...which is why I do not like them....They all seem to float down the runway....I normally use the Piper warrior....my favourite...But it was in the hangar for 100Hr maintenence...

So how is it done? I keep bouncing my landings and this is extremely embarrasing and dangerous...I hold 65-70 Kts all the way to the runway,
but I bounce everytime!

My instructor likes the speed control but seems to think that I'm concentrating on a single spot to land on the runway rather than looking at the opposing end....I look further away but bounce anyways...Sigh...

Once I landed a c-172 fine without a bounce, and with that aircraft I have not been able to do it again.....Any advice helpful. Thanks.

One of my students was having issues with this. Let me see if I can help.

Before you even go and try to land the airplane again, go and review a couple common pitch attitudes.

First, review what Vy looks like. If you have your seat position set appropriately, Vy in the C172 should look like the horizon is passing right at the top of the glareshield. Make sure that your seat is set at such a height that your eyes are roughly even with the top of the door. You should only be able to see the first set of rivets on the cowling.

Second, go out and review what 90 knots level looks like. In a C172 (at least the newer models), this should be roughly 3 average sized fingerwidths between the glareshield and the horizon. Again, that's assuming the seating position I just described.

When you're actually coming down final, you should ideally be on a 5 degree glideslope at full flaps and 60-65 knots. I like closer to 65 knots. As you're looking down at the runway, you're obviously going to see the runway getting larger in your windscreen. Now, on that runway you're going to see a point (maybe a centerline or other marking), that is neither moving up or down in the windscreen as the runway is getting larger. That's called the "point of no-movement," and is basically where the airplane would hit the ground if you were to continue to fly it at that pitch and power setting. Keep an eye on that point as you're coming down final.

As you come closer to the runway, that point of no-movement is going to actually start to slide backwards towards your nose. When you detect that rearward slide, start a 3-second power reduction from 1500 RPM to idle. I don't mean a fast count. I mean a nice, steady "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand" count. When you reach "three one thousand," your power should be at idle.

Directly after getting the power to idle, start your roundout by doing another 3-count. This time, you're going to smoothly add backpressure and raise your nose from that descent/approach attitude to 90 knots level. You should reach 90 knots level pitch as you hit "three one thousand."

By this point, you'll see the runway starting to rise up below you out of your peripheral vision. From that 90 knot level pitch, smoothly raise the nose to the Vy pitch attitude at the rate at which you see the runway coming up from below. You should reach Vy just as the wheels touch down, and at a full stall landing with no bounce and minimal float.

Anyway, it's 3am and I just worked an 11-hour duty day, so I hope I'm not leaving anything out. Feel free to add anything to this. Keep in mind that this technique does not fit everyone, so make any adjustments necessary.

 

[skiandsurf]

huh??? This demonstrates what? You want to up their confidence, Can their motor at 700 feet when climbing straight out. IF they remember to turn around and can make the runway safely, buy them a steak dinner. I would actually do this in the simulator with the weather at 1/2mile and 100ftovc. The sharp ones were able to intercept the backcourse and actually make the runway. The rest of the sheep just crashed straight ahead into the abyss.

Well, being that I taught for over 1700 hrs (more than your total time), I can assure you that if my student can recover from a bad approach and put it down nicely, we are both satisfied.

As far as doing a 180 back to the runway after an engine failure, I think that is the wrong thing to be teaching. back when I was a student and an instructor, we never taught to come back. Lose too much lift and altitude. much better off going straight ahead the safest place....street, field. Remember we are talking 152's not 737's.

 

[pilotyip]

Yea I teach 1000" AGL 180 OK, 500' AGL 90 OK, less than 500' straight ahead, make your decisions in advance so you don't waste time in a critical situation. Have a plan stick to it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

On thing to mention regarding a 180 after departure with a failed engine. Always turn into the wind if a crosswind exists. This will allow you to remain more aligned with the departure runway should you need to turn back. A tailwind behind you will put you further away and require more manuevering. Since many airports have multiple runways which intersect, sometimes a 180 back to the same runway isn't always necessary. In terms of banking, I recall a study done which showed that an approximate 45 degree bank was safe and provided a better return on altitude during the turn than did a shallower bank. The shallower bank took longer to get turned around and left you further from the runway.

 

[avbug]

I can assure you that if my student can recover from a bad approach and put it down nicely, we are both satisfied.

Bad approaches tend to lead to bad landings, though not always. The best salvation to a bad approach is a go-around. Setting the example of attempting to salvage bad approaches is setting a bad example. Far better to teach a student to be conservative and go around...then teach the student to make a good approach.

 

[skiandsurf]

Bad approaches tend to lead to bad landings, though not always. The best salvation to a bad approach is a go-around. Setting the example of attempting to salvage bad approaches is setting a bad example. Far better to teach a student to be conservative and go around...then teach the student to make a good approach.

This is a very good point. But what I am trying to see, is that the student has "control" of the airplane. The student has the skills to add a little power, maneuver the plane to where he wants it, and can finish with a nice landing. This is after doing slow flight, steep turns, stalls, touch and gos and go-arounds. This is the last confidence builder for both of us, to ensure that the student is flying the plane and not the plane flying the student.

This was my technique and may not be one for you.

 

[DCAinstructor06]

Cessna 152, I demo the 180 at NIGHT and at 500AGL. Believe me, superstick I am NOT! It only takes practice, given the options of sitting on my thumb and riding it into the trees in the dark or turning it around, I'll make the field.

 

[DCAinstructor06]

Bad approaches tend to lead to bad landings, though not always. The best salvation to a bad approach is a go-around. Setting the example of attempting to salvage bad approaches is setting a bad example. Far better to teach a student to be conservative and go around...then teach the student to make a good approach.

I agree, if it smells like pooh, guess what? It is. I'll let someone take me around ALL day until they get the approach correct. Only when they feel comfortable should they be allowed to land. Allowing anyone to continue a crappy approach to landing will only teach bad habits. Monkey see monkey do, or will 16000 hours cause one to forget this basic CFI tool. FOI.

 

[chitownflyer]

The Cessna 172 is a good plane, the only thing that irks me about it is there are supposedly a million different techniques to land the thing. That's what I like about Piper & Cirrus.....there is ONE way to land, that's it. Fly by the numbers.

What I have found that works (I learned in a 172R, and my flight school is just retiring 172Rs now) is fly the approach by the numbers according to the POH. About twenty feet off the ground, start reducing power to idle and about ten feet off, begin your round out. As the bottom starts to sink, slowly raise the nose. Shouldn't have a problem.

 

[minitour]

I realize this is just a bit on the late end of things but I'll chime in with my two pennies.

To land a 172:
Whatever it takes to be on final (~600 AGL) at 65kias slowing to 61kias at 50' (roughly over the threshold) with full flaps as this is the "short field" technique. Once at the threshold, smoothly reduce power to idle. Notice the word "smoothly". Nothing in flying needs to be done knee-jerk...no yanking the throttle out so bad that the entire control comes out of the panel...just smoothly reduce it to idle. At this point, the nose starts to drop (it helps if you trim slightly nose up on final, but not necessary) and the natural reaction is to pull back...don't! FLY THE PLANE to ground effect, then you start the flare.

IMHO, the flare is a two part process. It's a "level off" and a "flare". In the "level off" phase, you are going from descent with the nose low, into ground effect and leveling off in ground effect. At this point, your view should be down to the far end of the runway so you can see yourself sinking. As you start to sink (which should be pretty soon if you're 61KIAS at 50' with full flaps and go to idle throttle), you just raise the nose enough to keep it in the same spot relative to the horizon. In other words, when you "level off" in ground effect, the nose is in a particular position...during the "flare" you simply keep it in that position by applying back pressure and letting the aft end of the aircraft (including the mains) sink onto the runway. Keep the back pressure in as the mains touch down until you can no longer keep the nose up. Let the nosewheel drop on its own as the airspeed deterioriates and the elevator loses any authority to keep the nose up.

Now, for the 180 to the runway...I'm going to abstain from that comment as the only "experience" I have with that is "simulated" at 3,000'. At that altitude, it just simply didn't work. I tend to teach small turns to avoid obvious obstacles below 600' such as a 20 degree turn to avoid a radio antenna and typically 600' on up to TPA I will let the student make a 90 degree turn. But then, I also teach upwind to 600', turn crosswind, downwind at 1000' (or TPA in which case, I adjust the upwind leg also except in the cases of noise sensitive areas), so that has a lot to do with it.

Good luck with the landings! It gets better and easier with practice.

-mini

 

[Dizel8]

The 180 back may work, but to many stall/spin accidents have shown more often than not, that it doesn't.