How to Earn Respect as an Airline Pilot

[Bjammin]

Can we get back to the original purpose of this thread? Promoting professionalism.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

good idea

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Also consider you are talking about a moniker message board. Who is T8? Who is PCL128?

Can there be a better reply from guys like me and PCL128? Sure... I don't speak for PCL, but I'll work on it.... That is all I can control....


Keep in mind that a poster starts a thread about professionalism and guys like PCL and I defend the notion of professionalism.

Have you considered that by chiding us, you motivate the anti establishment guys? Do you allow free choice over ones interpretation of professionalism but not the defence of it?

That is the real threat: Guys like PCL do Walk the Walk. He spends about 10 guys worth of time trying to make this profession better. His time would be better spent defending this profession against gov't and management, but it is spent defending against our own.


How'd you respond if one of your own in your own house (aka our profession) trashed it. How do you reason with someone who wants to fight the only methodology that has a concern for thier welfare?

How do you fight ignorance and apathy on a moniker message board all while concerned the masses will believe that doing nothing is an acceptable path?

If you are aware of the youngest generation, this pilot gig is just that... something to try out and if it gets too uncomfortable they will bail. 20-somethings are doing this in every industry... it is not exclusive to airline pilots...

Guys like PCL have done more to defend and promote the COE than most of us.... yet he gets a "smackdown". Have you considered that you've devalued the profession by critiqing a defender?

number one rule of a professional and above board critique....

Offer a compliment before a complaint.....

T8-

Perhaps you missed this......post #117 A reply?

Rezfully yours...

 

[Bruno82]

What about walking around with your hands in your pockets. Is that unprofessional?

 

[OARfan]

In order to work for the airlines in the good old days, you were required to have 20/20 vision uncorrected, pass much stricter physical's, prior military experience, etc. The doors have been opened to anyone with a pulse who can pay for their ratings. Naturally the pool of qualified people will become polluted and the "profession" will as well.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In order to work for the airlines in the good old days, you were required to have 20/20 vision uncorrected, pass much stricter physical's, prior military experience, etc. The doors have been opened to anyone with a pulse who can pay for their ratings. Naturally the pool of qualified people will become polluted and the "profession" will as well.

Hence the evolution of the airline or any given industry.

Pilots during the turn of the century were considered "supermen" for thier daring ability....

As an industry matures, grows and expands (economically) so does the aura of "special capabilities" lessen. Technonolgy can play a role, but supply and demand is the real "diluter" of the profession. Simply said, the more pilots that fly, the more common and the greater the need, then the less "elite" or better.. unique.

In addition, our current economic model mandates that we play the costs against the risk. The Corporati's are playing the fatigue card almost to the point of brinkmanship... When the jets start crashing is when they will back off... usually with a public outcry and a congressional hearing.. Then a bandaid will be issued...but for certain, the compensation of the profession will NOT be adjusted for the better.

When the Corporati's start petitioning the Dept of State, the FAA and the DHS for work visa's and license conversions, etc.. so third world citizens can fly our jets (in about 10-20 years) then we will really lose respect for our profession. How many people respect, look up to or covet other immigrant workers?

So where does that leave us? What about professionalism? Who is responsible for it? Are THEY supposed to make the profession better? The Union Leaders? The Check Airman? Who?


How about you?

Professionalism is an individual choice.

 

[3ds]

In order to work for the airlines in the good old days, you were required to have 20/20 vision uncorrected, pass much stricter physical's, prior military experience, etc. The doors have been opened to anyone with a pulse who can pay for their ratings. Naturally the pool of qualified people will become polluted and the "profession" will as well.

haven't followed this thread much, but I'll submit that scope and pay go hand in hand on this issue. Other professions have 'evolved' as well but lawyers and doctors still seem to keep their respect as professionals.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

haven't followed this thread much, but I'll submit that scope and pay go hand in hand on this issue. Other professions have 'evolved' as well but lawyers and doctors still seem to keep their respect as professionals.

Consider...

Lawyers:

Have you heard this one... In a bar a customer said "All lawyers are assh%#s!!. Another customer said "I resent that". The first cutomer said "are you a lawyer?" and the reply was "no I am an assh%#!


I haven't heard that type of joke about pilots.





Doctors:

With mal practice insurance and insurance companies calling the shots and questioning decisions on doctors judgement I don't think doctors are as respected as they were...


The point is... our entire culture and value system is being turned upside down. If one gets out of flying I think they will have problems in another field...

No... better to stick to it... and try and make it better from within...

I'm in.

 

[3ds]

Consider...

Lawyers:

Have you heard this one... In a bar a customer said "All lawyers are assh%#s!!. Another customer said "I resent that". The first cutomer said "are you a lawyer?" and the reply was "no I am an assh%#!


I haven't heard that type of joke about pilots.





Doctors:

With mal practice insurance and insurance companies calling the shots and questioning decisions on doctors judgement I don't think doctors are as respected as they were...


The point is... our entire culture and value system is being turned upside down. If one gets out of flying I think they will have problems in another field...

No... better to stick to it... and try and make it better from within...

I'm in.

"Two."

by improving scope and increasing pay.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

"Two."

by improving scope and increasing pay.

Game on! A little self respect won't hurt us either!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

It has nothing to do with Hats and Shiny Shoes...Or talking to Kids in Airports, or giving directions to People.

The intent of the post is well meaning, but will never serve to correct the Ills we face collectively.

Good Luck All.




MKR

Ding Ding Ding,
We have a winner! Hats, jackets whatever! Every time a junior pilot get shoved under the bus, the majority of American pilots just keep on keepin on. You wanna know who the real pilot hero's are? The Chinese pilots who are standing up for their collective rights, but I guess thats not new, check the guy who stood off the tank in the big square. American pilots are just a slice of the rest of America, no different, now go back to your TiVo'd copy of American Idol, there are Chinese dudes protecting the profession for you.
PBR

 

[SERPICO]

In order to work for the airlines in the good old days, you were required to have 20/20 vision uncorrected, pass much stricter physical's, prior military experience, etc. The doors have been opened to anyone with a pulse who can pay for their ratings. Naturally the pool of qualified people will become polluted and the "profession" will as well.

Yeah, your right. Unless have 20/20 and belonged to the taxpayer funded aero club, you don't have the right to be here!
Did I miss your point?

 

[ePilot22]

Public Perception

Unfortunately, a great number of people today dont respect themselves first and foremost (Look like trash, speak using improper language, dress like theyre doing laundry, disrepectful to others). Its hard to respect pilots, or anyone or anything else for that matter, if you dont respect yourself first.

I read through this tread earlier today and was impressed with the original poster and I have to agree. I also have to agree with zkmayo. It doesn't have to do with low time, high time, captain or fo. It's the individual.






Anyway, just before shutting down the computer I wanted to see if I could find a picture of the e170 flight deck. This is what I found:Linky

From airliners.net...

"... The cloth on US domestic seats are better for longer flights, but the UAX seats in first used by Mesa on the CR7 and Chautauqua on the E170 are only comfortable for short haul. The first class flight attendant named Anastasia on this flight was serving drinks. She was a nice lady that was being friendly and was a new hire. She wasn’t anywhere near as professional as a mainline flight attendant, but served adequately. We then asked for the registration number of the plane. She was confused as to what we wanted, so Zone1 asked for her to go ask the captain. She then came back saying N514Monkey Jet. Zone1 found this hilarious. Overall I don’t think she has ever had that request in her life before..."

I posted this w/o reading his entire post, but reading beyond this he does write about the only thing unpleasant with MESA was the lack of professionalism from flight attendants.


Here's to respect and the public perception:beer:

Gotta wonder who else reads that and what is perceived?









eP.

 

[OARfan]

Yeah, your right. Unless have 20/20 and belonged to the taxpayer funded aero club, you don't have the right to be here!
Did I miss your point?

Nope! Spot on buddy. I'm civilian and know a lot of professional civilian pilots just as good or better than military. In my humble opinion, I have great respect for the military trained pilot who's dedicated 10 years over the now 250-500 hour regional new hire. Most are highly motivated and have a high sense of self- worth compared to the stereo type regional new hire willing to work for food stamps. What happens to any profession when you cut the requirements by 3/4? If anyone can do it, you're not going to be specialized.

 

[SERPICO]

Nope! Spot on buddy. I'm civilian and know a lot of professional civilian pilots just as good or better than military. In my humble opinion, I have great respect for the military trained pilot who's dedicated 10 years over the now 250-500 hour regional new hire. Most are highly motivated and have a high sense of self- worth compared to the stereo type regional new hire willing to work for food stamps. What happens to any profession when you cut the requirements by 3/4? If anyone can do it, you're not going to be specialized.

You don't make complete sense. What does' your interpretation of medical standards have to do with motivation? Are you telling me that an Air combat Instructor who wears glasses is not up to standards?
Everyone starts with no experience.
A new hire at a regional has always earned crap. Military guys have gone from 10 years service to the standard "kick in the nuts" salary in order to crack the heavy metal market. Whats the difference.
There will be below average people in every profession, low hour requirments has nothing to do with it really. Uniteds old mins were 350 hrs!!!!!!!!
Many overseas airlines have been big hirers of low timers. CX, QF,etc.
There is a demand right now, simple as that. Don't go blaming entry level guys for bringing down the image.
Most are motivated and work hard.
With 4000 hrs, you have hardly been around the block! Remember, all those trying to get started have to pass the same standrards you did.
Airlines can reduce mins because they are allowed to. Talk to the FAA if you don't like it.
It's up to the individual to look after themselves. Stereo typing stinks of facism.