How much am I worth

[osy007]

im a 135 charter guy

RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5 hard days off...Thats total B.S. That is less than minimum wage.

Thats 305 days on and 60 off...
That equals $65 dollars a day....That is not funny...
RRRRUUUUNNN AWAY...

 

[Freight Dog]

SIU... please tell me you laughed at this guy and told him to look for another sucker.

I can't believe any self-respecting pilot would take this job.

 

[Publishers]

We pay for training but have a training contract. There are always exceptions. We had one retired airline pilot who came trained but wanted to switch aircraft. He wanted to pay for his own because there was no real incentive for us to pay or do the switch so we said OK. The other was someone who I watched work in a piston twin for three years. We hired him and paid but with a training contract. Frankly our deal is mostly to look for experienced current and qualified personnel. Recurrent is not a problem but to hire off the street and do initials is not really desireable.

 

[siucavflight]

SIU... please tell me you laughed at this guy and told him to look for another sucker.

I can't believe any self-respecting pilot would take this job.

Wound up at the regionals instead. Thank you for your help, and this thread really did help me make up my mind.

 

[pilotyip]

This gives you the resume fluff to make your next move. You will bypass the long wait in the right seat of a RJ. It will also give you an entry point into the Corp world. With the coming pilot shortage you will find yourself very marketable in the next 18 month. Plus regional flying can be boring; you will learn a lot about flying in the 135 world. Don't chase QOL before you have the credentials to land that career job.

 

[BGSkyGuy]

I agree w/ yip. I think alot of the responses you are getting are from high time pilots who don't know what it's like to be low time wanting a job. My choices right now are to go to the regionals (yuck!!!) or go fly a baron or 402 at night single pilot IFR for 22k. If someone gave me the chance to fly right seat in a couple jets I'd sign up asap. Call it SJS I prefer to think that it is a step up from the alternatives.

 

[RUNWAYHOG]

They could type me in the space shuttle and I wouldn't take it for 20K. You will have NO LIFE. Been there, done that, and will not do it again. 30K with your time maybe, but not 20. How can you live on 20K??? At todays gas prices 20% of what you will make will have to feed your car. Tell the guy to find a 5 hour CFI.

 

[BGSkyGuy]

How can you live on 20K a year? Ask a 1st yr. FO at GLA how he's living on 13.5K, or a 1st year Mesa FO, 16.4K, or a first year Colgan FO doing it on 18.9k. Like I said before you guys have a lot of time and can sit back and say, that job is a piece of sh#t, but look at some of the other "opportunities" out there.

 

[siucavflight]

How can you live on 20K a year? Ask a 1st yr. FO at GLA how he's living on 13.5K, or a 1st year Mesa FO, 16.4K, or a first year Colgan FO doing it on 18.9k. Like I said before you guys have a lot of time and can sit back and say, that job is a piece of sh#t, but look at some of the other "opportunities" out there.

I dont consider those opportunities, I would rather not fly then take a job at Mesa.

 

[coffeepilot]

Location is more important in this case in my opinion

I think in this case the location Midwest is the key word! Low cost of living, low salaries!

If you get similar job in new york, Los Angeles, Miami area you could easily get 40-60K for similar job!

Take a job, fly your butt off and move on!

 

[G100driver]

This gives you the resume fluff to make your next move. You will bypass the long wait in the right seat of a RJ. It will also give you an entry point into the Corp world. With the coming pilot shortage you will find yourself very marketable in the next 18 month. Plus regional flying can be boring; you will learn a lot about flying in the 135 world. Don't chase QOL before you have the credentials to land that career job.

I might agree with you here YIP, except the guy does not want to pay for training. I know it is expensive, but if you cannot do it right do not even bother.

A 91 operator does not have the expirence to train pilots.

 

[BGSkyGuy]

I dont consider those opportunities, I would rather not fly then take a job at Mesa.

Forgive, me I thought the quotation marks were sarcastic enough. Like it or not those are the kinds of jobs available for entry level pilots right now. But I would still rather fly the mail in a P.O.S. for 24k than fly a desk. Just my .02

 

[pilotyip]

G100, where did it say he was going to pay for training?

 

[G100driver]

Sorry, I was not specific.

The owner was not going to send the pilot to school. The CP was going to train him in house by handing him the books and giving him flight training.

This is always a red flag. (Big dfference when a 91 guy does it vs a large freight outfit with SOP's and standardized training does it!)

 

[Swaayze]

siucav,

Just how much do you think you're gonna make 1st year at Eagle? Here's a hint: 75x12x$22.89 is just barely over $20k.

 

[FN FAL]

The problem is that the pay seems a little low to me, he wants to pay me in the low 20's for the first year.

What's their promise in pay for the second year?

2200 hours of the right time can get you in the feeders flying a van pic starting at about 33,000 a year. 20K a year sounds kind of low unless they'll let you wear jeans and spit on the floor of the plane instead of a spittoon.

 

[DX Rick]

I think in this case the location Midwest is the key word! Low cost of living, low salaries!

I love how people think living in the midwest is dirt cheap. Ever see the taxes in the suburbs around Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee?
My folks pay $16k a year in property tax alone outside Chicago. My friend pays $12k a year outside of Milwaukee.

My fiance and I were struggling in Chicago on a combined income of $110k a year.
Down here in AZ, 1/4 of the cost in the midwest.

 

[pilotyip]

Depends upon which part of the Midwest you compare, one of our pilots bought a house in North Dakota, 3 BR 1 Bath, 1200 Sq Ft, $6000, payments with taxes is $63/mo. Many of our pilots own houses around YIP and have monthly payments under $1000/mo all inclusive

 

[BGSkyGuy]

20K a year sounds kind of low unless they'll let you wear jeans and spit on the floor of the plane instead of a spittoon.

The new pilot's definition for QOL?

 

[siucavflight]

siucav,

Just how much do you think you're gonna make 1st year at Eagle? Here's a hint: 75x12x$22.89 is just barely over $20k.

No doubt, but that is what regionals pay, this guy was a 135 charter company with multiple jets, this job should pay more than a regional job would. And this is what I am saying, I want to make what I should for the job that I am doing, if I am going to take a job at a regional I expect regional pay, if I am going to take a job at a 135 outfit I expect to make at least the industry norm for that job. It really is not about the money, but I dont want to take a job that pays me way under the industry average.

 

[BGSkyGuy]

No doubt, but that is what regionals pay, this guy was a 135 charter company with multiple jets, this job should pay more than a regional job would.

Why should a 135 job pay more than a regional job when you can have 70-90 people in the back? All that matters is that it does right?

But wait, I forgot it's not about the money........

 

[BGSkyGuy]

I tell you what Siu, pm me the contact info for this job, I will gladly take it and then we can all stop arguing about. Sound good everyone?

 

[BoilerUP]

A 135 job should pay more than a regional job because corporate/charter flying and the airlines are NIGHT AND DAY different. People who charter a multi-million dollar aircraft aren't looking for the cheapest ticket on Priceline - they are looking for privacy and convenience and superior service... and as a pilot you deserve to be properly compensated for providing that.

IMO minimum pay for a BE400A SIC in the Midwest should be 30k + benefits. MINIMUM. Chicago = a little bit more than that. You should not subsidize a scumbag operator by allowing them to 1. pay you jack to fly a multi-million dollar turbine aircraft around, 2. cheaply do all your training in-house instead of formal training, and 3. have no QOL with only 5 hard days off. Yeah you'd be making similar money to GUARANTEE at a regional...but no perdiem, no ability for overtime/opentime, and half the hard days off of even the worst bottomfeeder.

I turned down a Beechjet SIC job around Chicago a little over a year ago because the guy wouldn't discuss pay. I was current on the airplane and he 'needed me yesterday', but wasn't willing to talk dollars and cents. No thanks...

 

[siucavflight]

Why should a 135 job pay more than a regional job when you can have 70-90 people in the back? All that matters is that it does right?

But wait, I forgot it's not about the money........

I guess that some people just dont get it.

 

[siucavflight]

I tell you what Siu, pm me the contact info for this job, I will gladly take it and then we can all stop arguing about. Sound good everyone?

And here lies the problem

 

[G100driver]

I turned down a Beechjet SIC job around Chicago a little over a year ago because the guy wouldn't discuss pay. I was current on the airplane and he 'needed me yesterday', but wasn't willing to talk dollars and cents. No thanks...

Uhhhh, how do you that. Go to work for a week and see what the check looks on payday?

 

[BoilerUP]

Uhhhh, how do you that. Go to work for a week and see what the check looks on payday?

I honestly have no idea. I simply asked "What kind of compensation are we talking about?" and after a couple minutes of stammering and beating around the bush ("we take care of our people" and "we can discuss that once you get here") I said thanks for the offer, but no thanks. Just seemed too shady to me...

 

[Freight Dog]

There is a huge price tag for SCHEDULE.

Let's see... crappy money at a regional vs. crappy money at Scumbag Jet Charter? No contest.

Now you put crappy money at a regional vs. decent money at a charter outfit.... now it boils down to personal preferences.

 

[siucavflight]

There is a huge price tag for SCHEDULE.

Let's see... crappy money at a regional vs. crappy money at Scumbag Jet Charter? No contest.

Now you put crappy money at a regional vs. decent money at a charter outfit.... now it boils down to personal preferences.

In that case the choice would have been the charter. But instead I went to a regional, am getting great 121 training, and in a year or two will be very marketable to good charter companies, or even 91 operators.

 

[Swaayze]

Actually you will be seen as an "airline guy" and unless you have a good network you will have a very difficult time getting interviews for 91/135 stuff. At least that's been my recent experience.