How Many Months Supply of Excess Pilots?

[Dornier 335]

Yeah, flown by cheap labor pilots from the US since they are applying by the truck load to places like LAN, COPA and wherever they can get DEC positions for $5000 dollars a month

BUT if you get your 500 hrs B737 or A320 PIC and if you are open to the world you can land yourself some pretty well-paid gigs on this planet. Especially like me who's stuck on the 145 which ain't good for anything. COPA, LAN etc. is like working in paradise for first year f/o pay and be surrounded by Latin babes (if that's your weakness).

 

[Lear70]

BUT if you get your 500 hrs B737 or A320 PIC and if you are open to the world you can land yourself some pretty well-paid gigs on this planet. Especially like me who's stuck on the 145 which ain't good for anything. COPA, LAN etc. is like working in paradise for first year f/o pay and be surrounded by Latin babes (if that's your weakness).

No, mine is near-anorexic blondes... (I call 'em "spinners") like the one in your avatar.

And yes, the airlines south of the border are primarily hiring Latin American pilots, absolutely MUST speak Spanish fluently, etc, etc... and they're getting them... for now.

As far as pilots flying for peanuts, that's an old, old argument, and the cat is definitely out of the bag on that one. Cabotage is a real issue, but in actuality, the Ryanair / slEasyjet wages are higher than many of our LCC wages in the U.S. 1st year guys are making about $65-70k over there (about EU$40k). With the Euro coming down in value, it's a little less equivalent in USD than it used to be, but it's still a lot better than most of the U.S. LCC's...

It's a very complicated puzzle... but I do expect wages at the Regionals and Charter jobs, as well as the international expat gigs, to improve with the coming crunch they'll feel from the "highly" qualified people going back to the Majors (recalls) or getting hired back in the U.S.

Long term? Anyone's guess...

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Jun/Jul/Aug/Sep 2001 on the J-41. Sim check was 09/12/2001, so not there for long! Some of the guys in my class came back and were there for a while!

cliff
LFW

 

[DUATS]

What a bunch of BS. Try management. Southwest has cheap tickets and good pay..... o yeah and they are profitable

Just looked at the favorite LAX-LGA for July 12-16, a random week for a business traveler. Southwest is $538. Next highest is Airtran at $458. USAir is $369. All the rest are between $399 and $408. I rarely fly Southwest, because I find their low fares to be largely a myth (and I really like assigned seats).

A contributor on airliners.net wrote,
"SFO-JFK in the late 70's was $294F/$245Y one-way, with excursion fares ranging from $245 to $343 round-trip. Fares changed so infrequently, the airlines could print them in their timetables, and they'd be accurate."

Using the Inflation Calculator, that $343 in 1979 would be $1000.50 today. Even at the low range, $245 would be $715. If the airlines could average a grand round trip east coast to west, they would have plenty of money to pay us pilots!

 

[waveflyer]

That's such crap-
what ? You want pilots to set ticket prices now?
Get real and stop the mental masturbation- fuel prices tripled and airlines paid them-
get involved in your union and support politicians that support us- and we'll see gains back. You're the only ones who will advocate for you. And we all need to do a better job of it.

Think: what motivation does mgmt have to run a profitable airline- they've worked out pay packages where they get paid a kings ransom either way- all profits do is make us want to get paid more... And the rampers and the agents etc etc

this industry has gotten together at their ranch and decided to sacrifice itself- when people travel cheap it stimulates the economy- and bk has allowed the airlines to shed billions in labor costs with no penalty. Why would they change this scenario?

It's up to us to get in the game and make our gains back

 

[Dornier 335]

history

fuel prices tripled and airlines paid them-

I'm afraid to ask, how much did airline CEOs' pay and bonuses increase?

 

[waveflyer]

seriously, right? and even mid level managers- mgmt retention bonuses anyone? hell = FA's got a big payraise at my regional b/c they couldn't find enough to fill the exploding ranks at their pay- they'd often get time and a half and earn more than the FO

 

[pilotyip]

That's such crap-
what ? You want pilots to set ticket prices now?
Get real and stop the mental masturbation- fuel prices tripled and airlines paid them-

ridership dropped, hiring stopped, lay offs followed, anyone remember the summer of 2008. The marginal consumer upon which every airline lives, decided not to fly. Bingo no profit

 

[HalinTexas]

There is no pilot shortage in the US. Won't be. When pay and benefits come up, that will signal a pilot shortage. In the GA world, maybe, but not professional pilots. You'll see the MPL before any significant increases in pay, I feel.

I haven't flown a jet since April of last year. I did get my CFI back last month! imp: I know many ex-ATA looking for work. Many haven't flown in a year or more. May have found something in latin America, but waiting to see. If you're willing to go overseas, you'll find well paying jobs, but...... you have to go overseas.

 

[Dornier 335]

If you're willing to go overseas, you'll find well paying jobs, but...... you have to go overseas.

That's what I did, and I don't regret having done it. I cannot believe how many pilots in the US are afraid to work in another country. Kinda weird.

 

[jet pipe ovht]

Do you have a family? its kind of limiting.

 

[Lear70]

Do you have a family? its kind of limiting.

BINGO! Give that man a cigar.

If you have a wife who won't relocate, or you're divorced with custody that switches weekly, you're screwed. Period. Like me.

There's only one or two true "commuting" gigs that exist right now, and even those are hard on a family guy. The others? Forget it. You're stuck.

Halin', not sure where you're equating G.A. Corporate pilots don't equal "professional" pilots? Maybe you meant "Major/Legacy" pilots, as I know the corporate scene will open up greatly in the next year - we're already seeing a LOT of movement in the Part 91 heavy iron market, and recruiters haven't gotten it through their head yet that "Typed and current" is going to very quickly be impossible to find. It'll take a year or so of not being able to staff before they figure it out - happens every up-turn.

Hang in there!

 

[Dornier 335]

Do you have a family? its kind of limiting.

I understand family obligations, I referred to people that do have this opportunity but chose not to.

...and recruiters haven't gotten it through their head yet that "Typed and current" is going to very quickly be impossible to find.

Man, don't get me started on those HR nazis...

 

[pilotyip]

BINGO! Give that man a cigar.......... we're already seeing a LOT of movement in the Part 91 heavy iron market, and recruiters haven't gotten it through their head yet that "Typed and current" is going to very quickly be impossible to find. It'll take a year or so of not being able to staff before they figure it out - happens every up-turn.

Hang in there!

have to agree all part of the 2012 hiring boom

 

[HalinTexas]

BINGO! Give that man a cigar.

If you have a wife who won't relocate, or you're divorced with custody that switches weekly, you're screwed. Period. Like me.

There's only one or two true "commuting" gigs that exist right now, and even those are hard on a family guy. The others? Forget it. You're stuck.

Halin', not sure where you're equating G.A. Corporate pilots don't equal "professional" pilots? Maybe you meant "Major/Legacy" pilots, as I know the corporate scene will open up greatly in the next year - we're already seeing a LOT of movement in the Part 91 heavy iron market, and recruiters haven't gotten it through their head yet that "Typed and current" is going to very quickly be impossible to find. It'll take a year or so of not being able to staff before they figure it out - happens every up-turn.

Hang in there!

Maybe I should define GA. I know that the feds define it as anything Part 91. I define it as anything/anyone that does NOT require a CPL or ATP. I'd love to find a corp. gig in DFW. It's always been a tough nut to crack. It IS the epitome of the GOBN, hence almost no adverts. on the "orange pages." I do know that Student and PPL apps are down quite a bit.

I commuted to the Cayman's for six months. From GCM to DFW via FLL (mostly). Home a full 6 days/mo. I'm a divorced dad, don't want to leave my kid behind. Current wife is ex-ATA FA (24 years), and has no interest in living overseas having seen it many times, but she's "coming to terms" that I might have to. I've heard first hand experiences from my compadres that went to SpiceJet, Air India (almost went there myself as DEC), KAL, Viva Macau (defunct), Shenzhen, Arik, Turkish, and Emirates. KAL is the best deal out there IMHO.

Timing is everything. I'm sure that is a factor to many. I always have a bad sense of it. I'm illiterate to tea leave reading as well.

Should we be as shocked about those that would turn a job down at a "legitimate" operation due to low pay? Look at the 1st year pay on APC. I mean really. I made more on unemployment than some of those "operations." No matter your experience, you're not rewarded or respected for it. Unions and management collude to make it that way.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The FAA forecasts that by next year there will be fewer than 69,000 student pilots in the U.S. That is down about 30 percent in the past 10 years, and is barely a third of the record levels of student pilots flying in the late 1970s and early 1980s

From what I understand, the KAL job is pretty good for DECs, but not very nice at all for FOs. Some ATA guys got on at Atlas, and I heard that World (rumours hiring at the end of the year, along with SWA) was going to give preferential interviews to ATA guys. Emirates and Turkish are hiring like MAD! (EK only for FOs, so far).

cliff
LFW

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Do you have a family? its kind of limiting.

Should we be as shocked about those that would turn a job down at a "legitimate" operation due to low pay? Look at the 1st year pay on APC. I mean really. I made more on unemployment than some of those "operations." No matter your experience, you're not rewarded or respected for it. Unions and management collude to make it that way.

Sometimes precisely due to your family you may have no better option than to seek employment abroad or in my case, remain abroad. Out of the four decades that a pilot has in this business (assuming entering at mid 20's and retiring at mid 60's) you will have a very different perspective depending on which of these decades your point of view is based on. I'll be entering my last decade pretty soon and starting at the bottom at one of the jobs currently available would mean a professional and economical reversal since I probably won't see the left seat in the 10 years I got left and I won't have anywhere near the earning potential in the same period. With 15 on and 15 off available to me in the next contract and business class commute I think that the "ship sailed" to start at the bottom at an airline in the U.S. I realize not all the jobs abroad are appealing and the expat lifestyle is not for everyone but like a UAL furloughed that is out here now and I were discussing the other day, he turned 50 recently and is on his third furlough (twice from UAL) he said "it comes a time that you are just too old to start again"

 

[Lear70]

No doubt, my friend. You and I have had this conversation before, I just wish more of the ExPat positions had the T&C's that yours does. Most of them are completely non-commutable, and don't pay nearly as well...

I hadn't heard about 15/15, that's excellent! Hopefully I'll get another shot at it, this time when there's not a bunch of current and qualified 757/767 pilots that are on the street.

Fly safe, and have fun out there, amigo!