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How many have quit a legacy?

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snow-back

snow-back

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Posts
329
How many have quit a legacy or other major airline either from furlough or outright? How many have no intention of accepting a recall? Have you started a different aviation career or different career altogether?

I'll go 1st.

Resigned from DAL for a good corporate gig. Aaaahhhh!:D

Anyone else?
 
If you had to take a 6 figure paycut to go back to UAL...what would you do?
 
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Add to this to the mix....I speculate there are some folks who are on personal leave that don't plan to come back once their LOA time is up/out.
 
A good percentage of the NWA people left after bankruptcy.
 
In the past three months, I have flown with a 52 year old, 23 year NWA Whale Captain who punched out early and a 50 year old, 19 year NWA Bus Captain who also punched out early in favor of my fractional. I've also flown with a 16 year furloughed US Airways pilot and a 4 year TWA/AA furlough, neither of whom has any intention of going back. Only one furloughed pilot at my company that I know have has accepted his recall (United and a mistake in my opinion). We had another who left for JB and has since returned. Within weeks, my decidedly better half will be looking at her 10 year major airline career in the rear view mirror.

Different strokes for different folks but there are many switching gears or departing the pattern and I don't blame them a bit. If I were 10 years younger and a lot smarter, I'd be heading for law school so I could make a mint off the next airline bankruptcy.
 
Good friend of mine was furghload from United. In the mean time he's built a real estate aquisition company and couldn't afford the pay cut to go back to United. They recalled him and he told them to cram it... he's like a damn kid on summer vacation.
 
Bypassing USAir recall indefinitely (which may be how long it takes them to call me back in the first place).

After the furlough went to two commuters for a total of about 2.5 years. Quickly remembered that the pay and work rules at commuters stunk. Got lucky and found a good corporate gig where i'm home every night.
 
Right now, the only way I can justify going back to AA (AA/TWA furloughee) is if my corporate pay stagnates (or the department really cuts back). Even then, I would shop myself around to other GIV/G550 operators before immediately running back to AA.

AND, I can only go back when I can hold CA in the STL cell. Otherwise, it's a pay cut--AND a huge QOL downgrade. Now, I get summer vacations and never gone on Christmas or Thxgiving. I've already blocked off my daughter's graduation weekend--won't have to use "platinum days" like at the airlines.

But I'm constantly evaluating the situation.

But make no mistake about this--I got lucky to find a gig that could replace a 15 year job at a Legacy. The guy who left NWA after 19 years for NJ either married well or is eating into his retirement, IMO.

Good luck to all. TC
 
A buddy of mine left Delta to go to Southwest back in August. He was just a bit junior to me, so he had been here about 10 years. He was a little uncertain about his decision until the USAir thing came up. Now he said he wakes up every morning and offers thanks that he is not still here.

Can't say I blame him. I would take a new hire position at Southwest over staying at Delta and going through a merger with USAir any day.
 
I resigned from Delta (it was airline 5 for me) outright in late '05. I'd spent 6 years there, and 22 years flying for money. I was just so done with the current trappings of airline flying: moronic management, an irrelevant union, crappy hotels, commuting in RJ's, and inane security people. Mostly though, I felt that it was long past time to move on to something positive. I also feel very fortunate having been able to do so. I certainly don't miss the airline job one bit, but do greatly miss many of the people. I'm now back in school full-time and loving life.

Retired as well from ANG F-16's, so my big arse will probably never again find its way into another cockpit - unless it's open, and the airplane has 4 wings and a round motor...

Cheers and Happy New Year to all. Life's really fine here on the other side!

Felix
 
ACL65PILOT said:
I guess that should tell all of the guys and gals that want to go to DAL something.
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It won't matter. My worst day at TWA (operationally speaking) was still better than my best day at Air Wisconsin (and that was when ARW was flying F27's and Bae-146's). TC
 
snow-back said:
02/97, 21+ years to retirement, projected #14 at retirement. Just couldn't imagine myself doing it for another 20+ years.
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I think this illustrates the new reality of our profession.

In the past, there were a select number of corporate gigs that were better than the airlines (for most people). Now, there are probably a lot of corporate jobs that are better.

The downside of both is that either one can go away at any time. Corporate flight departments can go away at the stoke of a pen (new CEO, Netjets, BK, or even if the company just needs to cut costs).

Airline jobs are not much safer.....although seniority helps. But throw in another terrorist attack or two (or stupid merger) and all bets are off.

That being said, it must be one hell of a corporate gig for you to leave that kind of seniority at DAL. I experienced the corporate lifestyle in a previous life and I wouldn't trade good seniority at DAL for any corporate job that I know of....although to be fair, the corporate job that I had 12 years ago was less than stellar (and has since been replaced by Netjets).

In any case, I wish you luck in your career.

Abe44
 
Abe--The good thing about corporate is that your experience counts for something. If you were a 604 captain and your department shuts down, you go looking for another job as a 604 captain. None of this start at the bottom crap.

But! There still aren't that many really good corporate jobs out there--especially if you don't live in the N.E.

The quality of the airlines has declined so much from when I got hired it doesn't take a "really good" corporate job to match the pay and QOL of the airlines. You just have to be aware that any job can be gone tomorrow. TC
 
AA717driver said:
Abe--The good thing about corporate is that your experience counts for something. If you were a 604 captain and your department shuts down, you go looking for another job as a 604 captain. None of this start at the bottom crap.

But! There still aren't that many really good corporate jobs out there--especially if you don't live in the N.E.

The quality of the airlines has declined so much from when I got hired it doesn't take a "really good" corporate job to match the pay and QOL of the airlines. You just have to be aware that any job can be gone tomorrow. TC
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The "best job" is to be in the back of a corporate jet, but not serving drinks.
 
The quality of the airlines has declined so much from when I got hired it doesn't take a "really good" corporate job to match the pay and QOL of the airlines. You just have to be aware that any job can be gone tomorrow. TC
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I think it's true that there are a lot of corporate jobs out there that match the pay and QOL at the airlines but the airlines are in the business of flying airplanes so unless they actually fail (which doesn't happen very often with the Legacy's anymore) I still think it's more stable, even though I've been furloughed twice. :smash:

I had a job offer from General Dynamics the same week I got hired at CAL and I took CAL. GD offered great benefits and a decent salary but I didn't see that job lasting another 25 years so I went with CAL. Some people thought I was crazy but that GD job no longer exists.

Who knows what will happen in the next 25 years but I think if you have a seniority number at a Legacy, you will retire at at Legacy. It may not have the same name as it did when you started but the job will be there.

I hope anyway!! :D
 
ACL65PILOT said:
I guess that should tell all of the guys and gals that want to go to DAL something.
Click to expand...

I still think DAL is a great job. It is 10 times better than a regional, no doubt.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Uniform shop said, "I think if you have a seniority number at a Legacy, you will retire at at Legacy. It may not have the same name as it did when you started but the job will be there. "

Tell that to the US Airways pilots who have recently reached retirement age while still on furlough!
 
snow-back said:
How many have quit a legacy or other major airline either from furlough or outright? How many have no intention of accepting a recall? Have you started a different aviation career or different career altogether?

Anyone else?
Click to expand...

There are 20 former USAirways pilots at my current airline. Only 4 of them were furloughed, myself included. The other 16 either retired or quit. For me to go back it would be more than a $100,000/year pay cut and I would be going back to 6th year pay :bawling: . I'm number 650 out of 1600 at my present company. If I'm lucky I'll be number 4799 out of 6676 after the seniority integration with 659 AWA pilots hired after me, placed ahead of me. I'd be lucky to make captain by 2014. Pretty simple decision really.


Typhoonpilot
 
Uniform Shop said:
I think it's true that there are a lot of corporate jobs out there that match the pay and QOL at the airlines but the airlines are in the business of flying airplanes so unless they actually fail (which doesn't happen very often with the Legacy's anymore) I still think it's more stable, even though I've been furloughed twice. :smash:

I had a job offer from General Dynamics the same week I got hired at CAL and I took CAL. GD offered great benefits and a decent salary but I didn't see that job lasting another 25 years so I went with CAL. Some people thought I was crazy but that GD job no longer exists.

Who knows what will happen in the next 25 years but I think if you have a seniority number at a Legacy, you will retire at at Legacy. It may not have the same name as it did when you started but the job will be there.

I hope anyway!! :D
Click to expand...

Uniform, Happy New Year.

The best advice is go where you want and be happy without looking back.
 
Uniform Shop said:
I think it's true that there are a lot of corporate jobs out there that match the pay and QOL at the airlines but the airlines are in the business of flying airplanes so unless they actually fail (which doesn't happen very often with the Legacy's anymore) I still think it's more stable, even though I've been furloughed twice. :smash:

I had a job offer from General Dynamics the same week I got hired at CAL and I took CAL. GD offered great benefits and a decent salary but I didn't see that job lasting another 25 years so I went with CAL. Some people thought I was crazy but that GD job no longer exists.

Who knows what will happen in the next 25 years but I think if you have a seniority number at a Legacy, you will retire at at Legacy. It may not have the same name as it did when you started but the job will be there.

I hope anyway!! :D
Click to expand...



Good call on the CAL vs. GD. Very good....

Good point on the value of a seniority number. But it doesn't always keep its value. I don't have to point out USAir, but that is the most recent example. 7 short years ago folks thought it had a very high value. Folks held on even though they were furloughed a SECOND time after 9/11. Now it is near worthless for those deep into furlough. You could say it's value slowly eroded or was never worth that much to begin with. I would dare say being deep in the AA furlough is equally worthless. Even though Int FO's and all Captains are doing great at a still great company. I'll let you decide.

PanAm, Eastern, Braniff. Some hung on for Braniff II. We just don't know whether or not UAL, NWA, DAL, or USAir will end up like them. And the value of your seniority number seems to drop daily as new job opportunities crop up or your former airline continues to furlough/fails to recall as they park additional aircraft or increases productivity and rape work rules.

And I'm not trying to be dramatic. Just looking forward 10-20 years instead of the standard 2-5 most seem to look.
 
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100 c.i. said:
The "best job" is to be in the back of a corporate jet, but not serving drinks.
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If you can sleep at night knowing you probably stabbed everyone in the back, manipulated and exploited others and raped people of money getting there which is probably what most of those people did to get there.
 
Tell that to the US Airways pilots who have recently reached retirement age while still on furlough!
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I know it doesn't always work out the way you plan and I really do feel for those guys. It's happened to me twice already and I'm only 36.

I guess my point is if you look at all the "Legacy's" over the last 20 years (DAL, UAL, NWA, CAL, AA, TWA, USAir-including all the merged ones) and come up with a percentage of pilots still working for the same "Legacy" or another one that bought/merged with their airline, there is a much higher percentage of pilots who will retire at that airline than there are pilots who lost their job never to return.

I know there are some exceptions but if you look at it on a percentage basis only you still have a pretty good chance at retiring with the first Legacy that hired you or another one that merged with it.

There will definitely be some hiccups along the way but, in my opinion only, a seniority number at a Legacy is still a pretty good bet.
 

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