how many failed checkrides is too many

[getonit]

I am applying at a regional and one of the questions is have you failed a checkride and how many. Unfortunately I have failed 5, CFI, CFII, initial 135 SIC in a metro, and the ugly, ugly one captain upgrade in a metro. The captain upgrade I was a complete mess and firetrucked the oral twice, no one's fault but my own and I knew the material just didn't demonstrate it at all. Don't get the idea I am a bad pilot, just a bad test taker, every captain I have flown with is writing honest recommendation letters.
Thanks.

 

[JediNein]

Interviewer: "Have you failed a checkride and how many?"
You: "Unfortunately I have failed 5, CFI, CFII, initial 135 SIC in a metro, and the ugly, ugly one captain upgrade in a metro. The captain upgrade I was a complete mess and firetrucked the oral twice, no one's fault but my own and I knew the material just didn't demonstrate it at all.
<insert what you learned and how well you are taking checkrides now, and how you have overcome test nerves>

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[chperplt]

The sad fact is, if you want to be in this business, you better learn to be a better test taker. With a checkride every 6 or 12 months, they come often.

 

[bobbysamd]

Test taking

I agree 100% with the above. However, you are flying Metros right now which used to be typical commuter equipment. So, you have experience in equipment that is similar to what the regional in question is flying. In fact, many people would opine that Metros pose a far greater challenge than many of the props now in use. You have solved the checkitis problem. You are passing your currency checks now. The company at which you're flying took a chance on you, despite your previous busts. You are proving that they made a good decision in hiring you, finally, by getting the job done.

Maybe you can add something like that to Jedi's answer.

 

[captjim]

You never know until you try. Let them make the decission. Good luck!

 

[LR25]

Well if they offered the interview, its yours to lose after that most of the time.

Being nervous is normal, just keep it in check and clear your mind.

Be positive.

 

[Draginass]

It's not going to help. Busting 5 checkrides established a definate pattern. Busting the same oral twice will really send up red flags. As an interviewer, that'd make me wonder about that person's motivation and attitude. The majors want people that can learn quickly and not tie up the sims with redos and remedial. Keep in mind that in the hiring process you're competing against other people who haven't failed nearly as many, or probably any at all, and have sterling letters of recommendation and employment histories. The only way I know to mitigate the problem is to establish a long run of VERY successful evaluations and bury the busts in the background clutter.

 

[flynearful]

I just want to know if you have a degree or not?
If so a 2yr or 4yr?

I am just wondering.....Thanks

 

[AZaviator]

The only way I know to mitigate the problem is to establish a long run of VERY successful evaluations and bury the busts in the background clutter.

Great advice from Draginass. If you have to explain your checkride failures during your interview, be sure to also let your interviewer know what you've done since then, to improve yourself such as achieving several hundred hours of PIC turbine time in the Metro, mention the fact you've never had an incident or violation, etc. I would do all this, in addition to mentioning what you learned with each failure. As far as your CFI and CFII rides go, those probably won't carry as much weight as your 135 checkrides. Most people go through their ratings with one or two failures. I would focus more on the more recent checkrides.

I"m sure you aren't the only person out there with 5 checkride failures, so don't let it get you down or stop you from applying with the regionals, or wherever you want to fly.

Good luck!

 

[TXflyer]

I failed my IR once, then washed out of B737 training because I went to law school and am now, at age 26, making 10 times as much as I would being a CFI or an F/E. Gotta love getting a check for $8,347 per month....AFTER taxes. I'm buying my own plane next month.

 

[bobbysamd]

Degree and busts

You really need a four-year degree, in something. A two-year in aviation might suffice for the moment at the commuters, but most of those who've been to college will have four-year degrees.

Hope that helps.

You know, as far as the busts go, there may be mitigating circumstances, such as checkride, examiner and school politics. However, although you might truly have been a victim of the above, you can't say that at the interview. You're not in a court of law demanding justice. You cannot expect the interviewers to have mercy for your misfortunes. Life sucks, sometimes. You have to suck it up and put a happy face on it by explaining how you benefited from the experiences, which you have. You've reached back a little further, you've put the checkitis behind you, you have grown, and you will grow with them if they hire you.

 

[Chunk]

I failed my IR once, then washed out of B737 training because I went to law school and am now, at age 26, making 10 times as much as I would being a CFI or an F/E. Gotta love getting a check for $8,347 per month....AFTER taxes. I'm buying my own plane next month.

What, exactly, was the point of this post?

Chunk<--rather be a CFI and starve than be an ambulance-chaser.

 

[MetroSheriff]

I failed my IR once, then washed out of B737 training because I went to law school and am now, at age 26, making 10 times as much as I would being a CFI or an F/E. Gotta love getting a check for $8,347 per month....AFTER taxes. I'm buying my own plane next month.

Right, we got it the first time you posted your drivel on the other thread.

Thanks for the info.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Checkride failures? You'll be right at home in ACA's CRJ Training program.

Seriously, though. We've had plenty of CRJ drivers who have pinked at ACA wind up at the majors. Just blame no one but yourself and it shouldn't hinder you.

 

[V-1]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TXflyer
I failed my IR once, then washed out of B737 training because I went to law school and am now, at age 26, making 10 times as much as I would being a CFI or an F/E. Gotta love getting a check for $8,347 per month....AFTER taxes. I'm buying my own plane next month.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps you should purchase a little maturity first.

 

[FL000]

My guess is that he went to law school because he washed out of 737 training and is trying to justify his failed excursion into aviation. If he were truly satisfied, he wouldn't feel a need to give us his biography and balance sheet.

If you're in 737 training, aren't you pretty much past the starvation factor in aviation? If you love money AND flying (don't we all), why wouldn't you press on from there?

 

[UPS Capt]

...Gotta love getting a check for $8,347 per month....AFTER taxes.

TXflyer,

Wow..I'd be taking a serious pay cut to make that kind of money! And, I bet I work less than half what you do at your law practice!

So, as others have said, what was the point of your post?!?

 

[Timebuilder]

Draginass has articulated the one hope that you have: establish a new pattern of accomplishment and professionalism.

Simulate the tests before you take them. If you have to, take them so many times that they are boring. Have several different friends simulate the oral. Have them simulate the flight or sim portion on a FTD. Do what you have to do. This is your career.

If there is another rating you can train for, spend the money and DO IT. Max out on the written. Get a letter from the DE praising your ability. Do something.

Don't let it appear that you are stuck in this rut.

Good luck!

 

[flyhi]

TXflyer-

I don't get it...

"washed out of B737 training because I went to law school and am now, at age 26, making 10 times as much as I would being a CFI or an F/E".

Were you in law school at the same time as B737 training???? And, sorry, but there's a pretty large difference in pay between a CFI and F/E at a national and/or major.

Anyway.....WHO CARES!!!!

 

[Fitzy]

TXflyer-

THANK-YOU for the much needed laugh. 26 years old, 8000 hrs and a Law degree. Also $8.347 a month . Is that rounded up or down to the nearest 10 cents?


"Throw me a fricken bone here"


Good luck -
Cousin Vinnie

 

[cvsfly]

Obvious BS from TXflyer, but there may be a point to be gleaned from it. Those who fly professionally should not get too wrapped up in it. It is just a job. Not everyone who comes through an assembly line flight school should or deserves to be in this business. It should not be about money, but then again you should at least be able to support yourself or a family. I would leave aviation in a minute if I saw my only earning potential in the next few years to be minimum wage. Heard today from a ramp agent that the Skyway Shorts 360 crew based here gets $300 week flying 100 hrs a month. That's insane.

 

[canadflyau]

not very forthright

TX flyer probably started flying at 17... he/she is now 26.. 9 yrs... has 8000+ hrs, so let me get this right. He/she averaged a min of 888 hours per year while getting ratings and what not, while also completing undergrad, then your law degree... YOU BUSY BUSY PERSON... You must never sleep! You probably make a great lawyer telling stories like that!

 

[cvsfly]

I've just seen TXflyer's posts to other threads. What an idiot. I withdraw my post above. He has no point.

 

[TMMT]

Just do a search for the kids name and read away... really a bothered soul.

TMMT

 

[FL000]

agreed. I think we have our new "jimborealgoodpilot".

 

[Goffer]

I like how this thread quickly changed from checkride failure and its potential effect on future job interviews, to ripping on TXFlyer. Too bad this won’t be enough to shut him/her up. (I bet its a him/child)
I'd like to think the majority of us that are pursuing a career in aviation as a professional pilot aren't in it for the money, were in it for the love and romance of flight. If I wanted quick money I would have became a male prostitute. But where's the honor in that?

 

[falcondriver]

I failed my initial cfi twice. Tell them the truth if they ask, plus what you learned from each failure. I got a class date at Vanguard last week, so I guess the failures can be over looked.
Good Luck
FD

 

[Fitzy]

Goffer---" Love and romance of flight"


C'mon buddy--- Pilots read this stuff, don't scare us.

 

[banned username 2]

I failed my IR once, then washed out of B737 training because I went to law school and am now, at age 26, making 10 times as much as I would being a CFI or an F/E. Gotta love getting a check for $8,347 per month....AFTER taxes. I'm buying my own plane next month.

Gee TXFlyer... You said in another post you make $125,000 per year and now you say your take home pay is $100,164... by my rough calculations that puts you in a 20% tax bracket.... BUT someone making $125,000 per year would be in the 30% tax bracket (don't ask me how I would know that )...

Sounds like maybe the IRS might be giving you a visit... oh and that is just Federal Withholding... what about all the other stuff such as Social Security, FICA, State, etc...????

:: sniff sniff :: Whats that smell??? What is this brown stuff all over my boots!?!? Man, I didn't know there were any bulls around here but there sure is a lot of BULL$HIT going around!

Loose the attitude TXFlyer, NOBODY is impressed... There are a LOT of guys on this board making the same or more than you are "claiming" to make and you don't see them tooting their own horn... You know why? Cuz when you make this kind of money, you don't give a $hit who knows and you don't really care... And you certainly don't see anyone going around bragging about it...

Grow up... and as far as "Washing out of B737 Training"... Isn't those quicky Type Training Courses only like a 5 or 7 day course? HHhmmm.. couldn't hack it, huh? Oh, and TXFlyer, if being a pilot isn't what you want to be, then why the "8,000 hours" in your profile??? Feeling a little inadequate with all these real pilots here???

 

[kilomike]

I did fail my pvt and my initial cfi. I recall learning that COEX would not hire me at the time I was interviewing with them even though those check rides were more than TEN years prior to the interview. I was appalled. There should be a statute of limitations not allowing rejection of a potential employee based on something that happened more than ten years ago and is of a minor, noncriminal nature. What about the recovering alcoholic who has been sober for more than ten years? That's quite an accomplishment to have alcholism and be sober for that long!! That if anything should not be punished!!

It's not fair to punish people for things that happened in the distant past and have not occurred again for more than ten years.

To avoid this kind of situation, applications should be required to ask: "have you failed a check ride in the past ten years?" (or use five years--USAirways had this question on the application which I liked to keep things fair)

Limit background checks to ten years and keep the FAA from giving out detailed records that are more than ten years old--keep that old information private!! People should not be punished for old, long-ago events.