How Low Can We Go?

pipejockey

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With all the new talk of concessions going around (Frontier, ExpressJet etc) I have been wondering just how little some of you all are willing to go on this job. It makes me sick to hear all these self righteous little eager beavers so willing to give management what they want. We need to understand, whatever is given to management in this day and age, will never, let me repeat that, NEVER, be given back!! What don't some of you understand?

AA is a perfect example. They take huge paycuts to stave off bankruptcy in 2003, and what happens as soon as the company returns to profitability in 2006? The scum sucking pukes in management take about 40% of the profit that year and disperse it amongst 200 members of management. Now the APA is in negotiations and want their reward for staving off bankruptcy. What do they get from these same managers that split up nearly 400 million dollars amongst themselves?? NOTHING!! I mean all they are asking for is 1992 pay plus inflation. Is that so unreasonable?

So back to my question, how little are you all willing to be paid. Just an informal poll. Based on seat and equipment.
 

hockeypilot44

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At Gulfstream International, the pilots pay the company to fly paying passengers under a Continental Connection paint job. So your answer is lower than working for free. This job is ********************ed. It is too easy to get your pilot ratings these days. We have too many uneducated pilots that do not realize what you just said above is true.
 

AbOvo

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It's not so easy now that a 152 rents for $100 an hour. According to the FAA the issuance of commercial pilot certificates has steadily declined since 2002.

2002 12,299

2003
9,670
2004 9,836

2005
8,834
2006
8,687




That may mean that only folks with sufficient "family money" are able to afford the training and therefore won't care so much about the levels of pay. Well in addition to those that just love flying that much.
 

JoeMerchant

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With all the new talk of concessions going around (Frontier, ExpressJet etc) I have been wondering just how little some of you all are willing to go on this job. It makes me sick to hear all these self righteous little eager beavers so willing to give management what they want. We need to understand, whatever is given to management in this day and age, will never, let me repeat that, NEVER, be given back!! What don't some of you understand?

AA is a perfect example. They take huge paycuts to stave off bankruptcy in 2003, and what happens as soon as the company returns to profitability in 2006? The scum sucking pukes in management take about 40% of the profit that year and disperse it amongst 200 members of management. Now the APA is in negotiations and want their reward for staving off bankruptcy. What do they get from these same managers that split up nearly 400 million dollars amongst themselves?? NOTHING!! I mean all they are asking for is 1992 pay plus inflation. Is that so unreasonable?

So back to my question, how little are you all willing to be paid. Just an informal poll. Based on seat and equipment.
Pipejocky,

I see you started in a Metro and flew the RJ....What did those jobs pay to start? Just currious....
 

spitfire1500

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I have prepared for getting out if anything where to happen to my job or medical, fattening my non aviation resume and renewing a second passport I have to expand the job market. There is no way I could start out at the bottom of a regional again. Not only would I be miserable never being home I would be bankrupt too.
 
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B727Driver

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From Tanker Clown (from the SWA MSP thread)

Hey man, all I know is that retired AF guys more often than not get hired. I heard it's because for a guy like me, SWA is a retirement job. So I won't complain about the contract and want some rediculous pay rate. Heck, I'll take whatever the company gives me since I have a retirement check already on the way.


Think this Air Force dork sums it up. I think he/she (or both) needs to be made aware of what goes on out there in the real world.

'Nuff said.
 

Sgt. Hartman

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I have been wondering just how little some of you all are willing to go on this job. What don't some of you understand?


So back to my question, how little are you all willing to be paid.

Mirrors are wonderful things...you obviously don't own one.

Sgt.
 

HalinTexas

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Wages will stop declining, when the only pilots left are those that depend on their flying job as their only source of income, excluding wives.

When those that have sideline businesses leave, because it's more lucrative to, and the numbers that have military retirement drop to a level that their voting power is reduced, then you'll see some (not a lot) of change.
 

Snakum

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Welcome to Supply and Demand. She ain't pretty, is she? :(
 

FlyinGuy

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I am still looking for that "other" career; maybe I can sell avation advice on E-bay?!?
 

instructordude

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Its a balancing act we all must understand.

Yeah....it would be nice to make 150K as a Capt or 100K as an FO but we have to take what the current economic environment will give us. I'm happy to have a job flying a jet.
 

Ex737Driver

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Its a balancing act we all must understand.

Yeah....it would be nice to make 150K as a Capt or 100K as an FO but we have to take what the current economic environment will give us. I'm happy to have a job flying a jet.

Just think. If we could get rid of your job, there would be more money to spread to other CA's and FO's. I suggest you quit and help us all out.
 

82spukram

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It's not so easy now that a 152 rents for $100 an hour. According to the FAA the issuance of commercial pilot certificates has steadily declined since 2002.

2002 12,299

2003
9,670
2004 9,836

2005
8,834
2006
8,687




That may mean that only folks with sufficient "family money" are able to afford the training and therefore won't care so much about the levels of pay. Well in addition to those that just love flying that much.


Its funny you point this out, I am not trying to bring up age 65 again (as in who is to blame just stated that for the industry it would be better at this moment without) but before age 65 past supply and demand was finally starting to workout in our (pilots favor). Republic I believe was offering $5000 bonus for new hires (with EMB145 time), XJT was thinking about going to second year pay after six months I believe it was. And that was just the start places like Mesa would have to do something TSA pilots would finally get what they deserve for holding out on scope a few years back and then within a few years guess what? The majors who all have contracts due soon would have to think of recruiting on a go forward basis...JetBlue before our attrition problem went away was suppose to pony up a lot more money in pilot pay but no need to once attrition was not a problem (I point out JB because 1. I work their and 2. Many of you trash us for low pay and benefits and I happen to agree with you.) So you ask how low we can go well at least for the next 4 years no telling (more pilots then need) after that what is left of our industry after these next 24 to 36 months will dictate what we are worth and people like instructor pilot need to realizes that he does not work for McDonalds mopping the floor anymore with his dreams of making it to fry’s and realizes that people are sitting behind him and expect him to save them when a flock of geese run into the airplane and break up the wing and engine and that’s why you deserve more then I just happy to have a job.

(Incase some are wondering why I work for jb before you state the obvious that I am part of the problem 1. they hired me first, 2. they pay better then my regional and is a better job 3. After ALPA asked the same questions just slightly different on age 65 I lost all faith in the ideas that govern ALPA so that leads to #4 4. I wanted to believe in the blue juice)
 

AbOvo

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Well they got a 5 year reprieve on the shortage and I don't think it's going to be a better situation for the hiring teams in 4 years from now. There just aren't enough people training. With a reduction in overall flying there might not be as much of a need as last year but who knows where we will be in 4 years.

My understanding is that the age 65 ruling passed because you had airlines realizing they were going to have a serious problem on hand, they were lobbying for the rule change based on that need. In addition to that you had the guys who lost their retirement lobbying for the change, just so they could pay the bills.

It'll be interesting to see how things play out when the Vietnam era pilots start retiring in 4 years. I commuted on AA for a while and never rode with one 757 crew member under 50 years old.
 

4 Fan Trashcan

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From Tanker Clown (from the SWA MSP thread)

Hey man, all I know is that retired AF guys more often than not get hired. I heard it's because for a guy like me, SWA is a retirement job. So I won't complain about the contract and want some rediculous pay rate. Heck, I'll take whatever the company gives me since I have a retirement check already on the way.


Think this Air Force dork sums it up. I think he/she (or both) needs to be made aware of what goes on out there in the real world.

'Nuff said.
Before you lump Tanker Clown in with the rest of us AF-types, go read his other posts. The only thing he'll be doing after retirement is bagging groceries at the commissary.
 
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Tanker Clown

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Before you lump Tanker Clown in with the rest of us AF-types, go read his other posts. The only thing he'll be doing after retirement is bagging groceries at the commissary.
Whatever. This is why the airlines love retired military guys. It's a retirement job for us. Therefore, we don't rock the boat. Heck, I'd take a 10 year pay freeze at SWA to work there. It's just a supplement to my AF monthly check.

You should just be glad you have a job. Or, you could always go on strike and just strike yourself out of a job.
 

BUDDHA145

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How Low Can We Go?

I dont think theres an awnser for this...for example crj1000 and EMB190 will be on the regional market in 2009 or 2010 and theres nothing we can do about it, so while all CEO's wipe their asse's with our contrac it will keep going down!!! for me, we all and I mean all, need to stop just for a week and see what happens!!! but what do I know...
 

CopilotDoug

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Done!
You all have probably had the same experience as I have, and that is pilots who are semi/fully-retired doing this for a "hobby"

What other hobby "careers" are out there?
 

BigMeat

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Pipejocky,

I see you started in a Metro and flew the RJ....What did those jobs pay to start? Just currious....
Everytime I read your posts I cringe. Ever since you went to management on your knees I have heard you have turned into a real ******************************. You know what I hope happens to you. Ill tell you what I hope happens to you. I hope you are riding your bike home one day from your boyfriends house and its getting late. You realize that its getting dark. Joe is afraid of the dark. So you start pedalling faster and faster. You come around a bend and lose control of your front tire and fly off the edge of the road and at the last second find yourself smashing really really hard next to a 4 foot high storm drain. Before you know it you black out....Slowly sometime later you feel your self being shifted slightly everyonce and a while. You open your eyes to see this humongus homeless guy standing over you. When I say big I mean big. Fingers the size of hickory farms summer sausages. You start to move but the homeless guy slaps you in the back of the head so hard it send stars througout your vision. You think better of trying to get up. He comes and flips you on your stomach and grabs the back of your pants and starts to rip them from your frail pathetic little body. You know what you is going to do and you let him because your a cowardly tool. When he is done he slams your head with his mega fist and again you black out.....Sometime later you awake on your front door step. You figure the homeless man found out where you lived and delivered you to your warm cozy home. You reach up and ring the door bell. Your wife comes to the door and gasps at the pathetic image before her. She carries you inside and up the stairs to the bedroom and lays you on the bed. You think she is going to "make the boo boo all better". For some reason she is taking too much time. So you crane your frail little neck around to see what she is doing. Low and behold you see her naked wearing a harness. Whats that for you think and can it save my company money? She reaches into the drawer wearing a grin. From the drawer she pulls out this 15 inch black dong...and clips it to the harness.....
 

jetflier

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Everytime I read your posts I cringe. Ever since you went to management on your knees I have heard you have turned into a real ******************************. You know what I hope happens to you. Ill tell you what I hope happens to you. I hope you are riding your bike home one day from your boyfriends house and its getting late. You realize that its getting dark. Joe is afraid of the dark. So you start pedalling faster and faster. You come around a bend and lose control of your front tire and fly off the edge of the road and at the last second find yourself smashing really really hard next to a 4 foot high storm drain. Before you know it you black out....Slowly sometime later you feel your self being shifted slightly everyonce and a while. You open your eyes to see this humongus homeless guy standing over you. When I say big I mean big. Fingers the size of hickory farms summer sausages. You start to move but the homeless guy slaps you in the back of the head so hard it send stars througout your vision. You think better of trying to get up. He comes and flips you on your stomach and grabs the back of your pants and starts to rip them from your frail pathetic little body. You know what you is going to do and you let him because your a cowardly tool. When he is done he slams your head with his mega fist and again you black out.....Sometime later you awake on your front door step. You figure the homeless man found out where you lived and delivered you to your warm cozy home. You reach up and ring the door bell. Your wife comes to the door and gasps at the pathetic image before her. She carries you inside and up the stairs to the bedroom and lays you on the bed. You think she is going to "make the boo boo all better". For some reason she is taking too much time. So you crane your frail little neck around to see what she is doing. Low and behold you see her naked wearing a harness. Whats that for you think and can it save my company money? She reaches into the drawer wearing a grin. From the drawer she pulls out this 15 inch black dong...and clips it to the harness.....
Bigmeat,

Boy y'all read too much porn !!
 
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