How Long?

[:-)]

I've been reading the posts written about the B6 Jungle jet pay rates and can't help but wonder: when will the lack of top level compensation drive off all of the beginners?

How long before reality sets in? How many pilots will aspire to the profession when the compensation is equivalent to flippin burgers?

It will happen. Sooner or later, the wages will be so unattractive that no reasonable person will enter the workplace.

Now for the real question, what will the managers (who are currently demanding low pay) do, when they truly can NOT find pilots willing to work for Wal-Mart wages? If they wish to remain consistent, the only choice will be for them to close their doors, park the planes, and hold a going out of business sale. Because their current rhetoric maintains that they can't pay proper pilot wages and still stay in business.


Calvin

 

[dixieflyer]

Relax. I dont think this will be a problem. Guys have been, and are still willing to fly as a FO for $18K-$22K. In fact they are standing in line to do it. There are even those who are willing to pay $ just to sit right seat and raise the gear and flaps.


But you get a cool looking uniform (that's deducted from your 1st year pay), and get to impress chicks as you walk through the terminal. Hey, beats making min. wage at Burger World.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Maybe ALPA could take ads opposite of Comair academy's,etc... ads and despell the myth. Even better would be to have a "don't be a pilot" program instead of the stupid "be a pilot" crap. I was in Barnes and Nobles today looking at the aviation magazines. There was a younger kid doing the same and we started talking. He told me he wants to do this for a profession until I gave him the down low. He was rather shocked to hear the truth and said he would think about changing majors in school. We have to reach these people one by one folks.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Or Perhaps ALPA could sponsor a testing organization similar to the MCAT and the LSAT, and eventually every new pilot and the current ATPs will be in a self governing organization similar to what Drs and lawyers have, along with their FAA licenses. Limit the supply of rookies, and the wages will go up. Mom'n'pop flight schools allow anybody who have 40grands to become pilots. I'd say lets keep the professional pilot sources to military and formal flight schools.

 

[CatYaaak]

Or Perhaps ALPA could sponsor a testing organization similar to the MCAT and the LSAT, and eventually every new pilot and the current ATPs will be in a self governing organization similar to what Drs and lawyers have, along with their FAA licenses. Limit the supply of rookies, and the wages will go up. Mom'n'pop flight schools allow anybody who have 40grands to become pilots. I'd say lets keep the professional pilot sources to military and formal flight schools.

Well, the government "allows" people to get pilot licenses both by regulating their issuance, and ensuring the freedom to let people pursue their own goals or choice of career in life.

You can't seriously be suggesting that ALPA control this. A union who's members can't even get along with themselves within most MECs, let alone other, competing ranks-and-file...as an all-powerful guild? That may perhaps be the most ridiculous, pull-the-ladder-up-behind-me elitist, or pinko thing I've hear on these boards.

But what you suggest is essentially the model in some places, Europe for example. What they have are FAR higher requirements for licensing, far more regulation, virtually no flight schools, fewer opportunities, restricted access, fewer airlines, and those don't make money, and far, far fewer pilots. They also have POORER wages than compared to here,especially when you factor in cost of living. As a "bonus", they have almost no commercial non-airline aircraft (jobs) relative to their economies sizes. Go try to get a job in their system, or if jumping through the hoops is worth what is on that protectionist side of the fence...then see if you have the same opinion when comparing it to ours.

 

[BoilerUP]

The public doesn't care what airline pilots are paid - in their eyes, all pilots are "overpaid" and "underworked" because all they do is "push buttons". Yeah, until you have a system malfunction or large weather area or ridiculously strong crosswind, then they want the "best of the best" up front, but aren't willing to pay more than $200 for a round trip ticket. They mumble under their breath when
a weather delays a flight, completely oblivious to the fact you've been away from your family for four days and want to get home waaaaaaay more than they do.

Low-time pilots (CFIs, etc) jump at the chance to go to the airlines because its an increase in pay for them most times, sometimes a large increase in pay. If you really wanted to increase airline pilot pay, you have to start at the bottom. Somehow CFI wages need to go up to a level where you don't need food stamps or to work two other jobs to pay your bills. After this is done, regional pay can go up because Lord knows they are making money and can afford to increase pay at least $2-4/hr more across the board. Not a big hit to their bottom line, but can make a huge difference to the pilots.

I didn't get into this industry to get rich, I got into it because I love to fly. This having been said, I expect to be fully compensated for the high level of responsibility on my sholders as a professional pilot flying a $30M jet with 50 people on board. The compensation should obviously increase as planes get bigger and passenger numbers increase. I don't think it would break the regional airlines' bank if they paid 1st year FOs 30/hr, 3rd year FOs 45/hr, and 5th year CAs $75/hr or more.

It is not the place of current airline pilots who are unhappy their career will no longer support a garage full of Beamers and a winter home in Flordia to say who may and who may not become a commerical pilot. To believe such would be elitist garbage.

If you want to raise salaries, TAKE IT UPON YOURSELF to work with young aspiring pilots to give them the whole story, not just the neagtives, but the positives as well. Encourage your MEC to work with local flight schools and university flight programs. And then, most importantly, demand higher standards from your company during training. If you want to increase the minimums, fine (I don't agree with this)...but I think demanding increased proficiency out of indoc, systems and sim for new-hires would help weed out the haves from the have-nots, so to speak.

You, me, WE are all only worth what we negotiate.

My $0.02

 

[IP076]

Just some simple math.

Airline X has 1200 pilots on its payroll whom each fly (or get paid) 85 hours a month. If you raised the payscale on all levels by $6 it costs the company an extra 612k (not counting any 401k matching or anything) monthly or 7.3m annually. It also means an extra $6,120 on the W2 for each pilot.

 

[Clyde]

Maybe a stronger labor voice. The pilot unions need to let these companies know that they don't want to be paid the same as a someone working at Taco Bell. And putting posters up in the terminals in IAH is not the way to do it.

Just a suggestion, but what if every pilot union at every commuter/regional airline went on strike at the same time? Don't back down. Don't go on strike for any length of time just to settle for a couple of extra bucks at the end.

The regionals exist because the pay is cheap and it makes good business sense to operate them. Unfortunately it isn't good business sense to be on the other end. If you are a professional, demand to be paid like one. Either you will, or the regionals will shrink to the point where the mainlines begin expanding once again and hiring more people.

As far as people crossing picket lines:
First, if more than one large regional went on strike simultaneously, it would be hard to train and get enough people qualified to operate profitably.

Second, if scabs do cross, put out a press release showing the public how much little time these people have and they are crossing only to gain experience and to practice flying. And doing it for pennies too. I doubt many people would still want to fly.

Bottom line is this: the only way to communicate with any type of management is with the universal language of money. It talks and it speaks well.

By the way, I never flew for a regional. When I was building time prior to getting on at my current major, I chose to fly charter cargo. The working conditions, schedules, and some of the equipment were bad, but the pay was really good. I was making more as an f/o than some of my friends who were captains at the regionals. Again, it was the voice of the mighty dollar that spoke to me.

 

[skykid]

...until I gave him the down low.

Obi-wan, I think you meant low down, not down low. Down low means keep it quite, just between us. I think it would have been better if you just gave him the 411.

 

[Indypilot]

Just some simple math.

Airline X has 1200 pilots on its payroll whom each fly (or get paid) 85 hours a month. If you raised the payscale on all levels by $6 it costs the company an extra 612k (not counting any 401k matching or anything) monthly or 7.3m annually. It also means an extra $6,120 on the W2 for each pilot.

IPO76, I agree with your math, but where are you going to get an extra 7.3M to make payroll? You gonna eat into profits, or pass it along to the consumer?