How Long?

[ASH]

Yes, we will pass it along to the consumer, and get fares back up to where they should be. $59 each way....sheesh

 

[Publishers]

Cause & Effect

First of all, if you take the pilot wages of all professional pilots above flight instruction level, the numbers you would get are far better than at Taco Bell.

The problem is more related to the curve set by the commercial airline business. Under the current system, the spoils go to in some ways the least productive and the most senior. The balance to this is low wages to the highest productivity and least senior.

The aspiration to the higher drives the lower further down. As example, a corporate co pilot in a jet or tubo-prop makes more on average than does a regional pilot.

There will always be a flocking to this industry to some extent because of above and the fact that many could not gt these type wages if they were forced to do something else.

While everyone points out the compensation levels at big companies, the fact is that there are a ton of mid level managers with a good deal of responsibility for many employees who are paid less than the average line captain.

Now I do not want to minimize the skill to deal with flying an aircraft in weather and all that it takes, but, the basic fact is that you were in more danger driving to the airport on your average freeway.

 

[greyhound]

Won't happen soon but...

Salaries should be raised at the lowest level.

Even if it meant no real raise for senior pilots.

A floor should be set. ($35k min)

Once other carriers do the same (over time), You could work on bettering top pay.

Won't happen soon though.....

 

[Mooseflyer]

"Thank you for flying Greyhound"......hilarious! The sad part is, actually traveling by Greyhound would be more expensive than flying

 

[:-)]

Maybe I should rephrase the question, or just change it altogether.

Here she goes: How long before aspiring pilots stop spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to get qualified for a job that pays only tens of thousands of dollars?

Or maybe I should ask: Will there ever be a pilot shortage?

Going slightly out of character here, (forget the Calvin/Hobbes dual personality BS), I believe in the free market, and that market works both ways. When a job pays above market, there will be an oversupply of applicants, but when pay decreases, so will the supply of willing applicants. That concept is basic economics. What isn't basic econ 101 is the actions of the pilots, Will we ignore economics and flock to the industry in spite of it's wage structure just because it let's us fly?



BTW, thanks for the replies

 

[starchkr]

Indypilot....I think IPO76 was just doing the math after BoilerUp suggested a "small" raise to all the pilots in a company. Boiler suggested a 2-4 dollar raise per person, and I too immediately turned to my trusty calculator to do some math. His $6 math was a bit steep, so i did the same math with $2. @ $2 it would come out to 204,000 per month, 2,448,000 per year, and who knows how much in OT they would have to pay with the increase in pay. Now i am not saying that pilots do not deserve this...god knows i am not saying that...I know i could desperately use some extra money right now. But you can see where a company sees the downfall in paying even as little as $2 more per hour, less profits for them. And we all know that management does not want to take that 2.4 million and give it to pilots, when they can give it to themselves as bonuses. My suggestion...if you do not like regional airline wages, don't go to them...there are other ways to get your experience and move to the majors. Or go to a regional as a management type and then you can pay yourself that 2.4 million as a bonus each year.

 

[cale42]

I'm sure I'm gonna get my rear lit on fire for saying this.. but what the hey. Until the levels of education and skill required to be a professional pilot match what is required of other professional fields the matching pay will not exist. Why do doctors and lawyers make so much money? Because they went through 4 years of undergrad training, where they excelled, they were smart enough to get the GMAT or LSAT scores to get into medical/law school and the busted their butts for several more years finishing school and being at the bottom of the totem pole as a resident or an associate. It is an extrememly small percentage of the population that is even capable of this, and of that only a few of the capable ones want to do it.

On the flip side.. what is necessary to be a Commercial pilot. 18 years in the world and passing a 4 hour checkride. There are plenty of pilots out there that never even graduated high school.. mind you college. So, simply put, there is a large percentage of the population that can do this, and it is an attractive job, so there is a large percentage of people that want to do this.

The simple fact of the matter is being a pro pilot is not a "professional" position. It is skilled labor. Same amount of talent as a welder or an electrician. As long as that is the case the pay will be that of skilled labor(quite respectable but nothing to get rich on).

Sure you can argue that pilots have more responsibility.. human lives in their hands and what not.. and that is probably true. However until the entry requirements to be a pro pilot is drastically raised thus reducing the number of pilots(supply and demand here folks) the wages will stay where they are.

Do you think doctors would get paid so much if everyone and their mother could get an MD by spending 40K and a year or 2 of their lives... I highly doubt it.

Just my $.02

cale

 

[fokkers&beer]

The staring pay for the regionals is very low, I agree with that. The problem with the industry is deeper however. When someone can spend over 100k on a college education that allows them to get a right seat job with sought after regional, when he may not be as qualified as other more experienced applicants, then his pay should be rock bottom. He should not be complaining about making 20 -25k a year. Most entry level jobs in the corporate world would'nt pay a whole lot better, and those are jobs going to college grads with four year degrees. It is pitiful but true. If the 500 hour FO's have problems with that go fly some place and get some experience, get humbled and get some respect and maybe your pay will reflect what you should be paid, not a pay to play game.
The other half of the problem is the top pay is too high. Heres some news guys, its not 1968 and the airlines arent regulated anymore, low cost is king, were not flying 707's and pilots arent heroes. The truth is were a dime a dozen, and pay will reflect it, its simple economics, it sucks but its true.
To be in this ball game you got to do it because you like the job. Do not do it for the money.
The

 

[pilotyip]

Fly because you like to

A high school drop out can make a living flying an airplane and have a skill level equal to anyone out there driving airplanes, in fact I know one at a major. Pilots are a commodity, a company or an airline needs a COM/INST/MEL rated pilot, there are 1,000's to chose from, and the job goes to the lowest bidder. Skill above a minimum level means little to the employer. In fact the skill level above the minimum has little to do with the hiring process, personality, work ethic, etc, play more into the pilot hiring process than hours and ratings. Anyone with a certain level of skill and some desire can become a pilot. I love flying, do it as much as I can, and I enjoy flying anything with wings, and that is reason I came back to aviation. But I think sometimes pilots have a misplaced why they fly, if you are in it because you like flying, you will not be disappointed. If you are in for the money, you may be disappointed. If you want money become a sought after professional that can solve a company's problems.

 

[BoilerUP]

Indypilot....I think IPO76 was just doing the math after BoilerUp suggested a "small" raise to all the pilots in a company. Boiler suggested a 2-4 dollar raise per person, and I too immediately turned to my trusty calculator to do some math. His $6 math was a bit steep, so i did the same math with $2. @ $2 it would come out to 204,000 per month, 2,448,000 per year, and who knows how much in OT they would have to pay with the increase in pay. Now i am not saying that pilots do not deserve this...god knows i am not saying that...I know i could desperately use some extra money right now. But you can see where a company sees the downfall in paying even as little as $2 more per hour, less profits for them. And we all know that management does not want to take that 2.4 million and give it to pilots, when they can give it to themselves as bonuses. My suggestion...if you do not like regional airline wages, don't go to them...there are other ways to get your experience and move to the majors. Or go to a regional as a management type and then you can pay yourself that 2.4 million as a bonus each year.

If every airline were to increase the cost of each round trip ticket by ONLY $10, you could give the whole flight crew a $1-3/hr raise and vastly increase revenue for the airline. If a passenger decides not to travel because of an extra $10 attached to their ticket, then I don't think the airline should want them anyways.

The key to airlines being profitable isn't just reducing cost; they should be concentrating on increasing revenue. I'm not looking for a CR2/145 CA to make AAI 717 wages, but a couple bucks will NOT effect the bottom line of any carrier out there. Back in my (literal) infancy, you could fly across the country $99 each way. Twenty years later, you can STILL fly across the country for $99 each way. I'm no bean counter, but that stinks of foolish management and misplaced priorities.

I agree with the posters above, if you believe regional salaries are too low and you can make more $$$ elsewhere (aviation or otherwise), then don't apply. I just think if I (as a college senior with only one economics class) can figure out a painless way to increase revenue and make their employees happy at the same time, why can't they?