How Long?

[N8Dogg]

Maybe it is time the general public should understand just how little pilots make their first several years. This will pursuade guys/gals looking into aviation to pursue more lucrative careers outside of aviation and increase demand for our "professional" services. Limited supply = higher demand = livable pay. How about it ALPA?

 

[FN FAL]

Maybe it is time the general public should understand just how little pilots make their first several years.

The public WANTS you to work for free. What is there to understand?

 

[surveypilot]

Student Starts

Quote

I would say the number is dropping. The flight schools that I poke in once in a while are down with active students. I did most of my training in the mid nineties and there were many students and 4 or 5 times the instructors at these schools. It would be interesting to see the enrolment numbers and "change of major" numbers at UND and other pilot universities.

I think that you will find that at most aviation universities, you will find that student enrollment is just as cyclical as the industry. However, it lags behind the cycle by 2-3 years. It takes that long for the current reality of the job market to filter down to the average student. This means that right now when we are hopefully nearing the end of a downturn, flight schools have just finished churning out thousands of new commercial pilots. This creates a rubberbanding type effect in the number of available pilots compared to the number of available students. This creates the false notion of a pilot shortage on the upswing of a hiring cycle.

Just my observations.

 

[NuGuy]

I'm surprised that a Naval aviator such as yourself has the same reading comprehension trouble as do way too many others.

Your response has nothing to do with my question. I still want to know how many people who are currently NON-PILOTS will enter the profession now that compensation has tanked. I'm sure that you know young people who are in line for whale Captain, but they are already in the game. I want to know about people who are not currently in the game.

Hiya Bud,

Yup, I see that almost everybody dodged your question. I have often wondered the same thing myself.

You are absolutely correct in saying that at some point, it will trickle down that there is zero cash in this business except to the lucky few who slide in and out when the timing is good.

So here's the deal... You are going to pay 40-50k for a college degree (and despite what Yip said, you still need a degree to be competitive with all the other yo-yos out there), and now you are going to spend another 40-50k for your ratings just to get in the door.

All for what? 250 hours.

Ok, after that, lets add the 2-3 years of living at poverty wages working sh!t jobs for vindictive a$$holes. I'm sure everyone can agree here that the number of scam artists and low brow operators outnumber the decent aviation businesses by a good margin.

Oh boy, now you can be a "regional pilot" who starts at 22k a year while working horrendous schedules. Bust your hump for another 3 or 4 years and oh boy, you're a regional captain, making 50-60k tops, and then only if you are working for a "top" operator. Looking down the road to $100/hr? Well, have good binocs cause it's 20 years away.

With all the majors in the tank, where do you go? SWA pays pretty well, if you are one of the VERY few who gets hired (in the big picture of things). FedEx and UPS still pay ok, but gee, I see alot of those DHL commericals on the TV lately...how soon until they are caught in the same mess as the pax carriers?

Even with the start ups...the only way they REALLY attract anyone is the "lotto" mentality of the stock options. It worked for SWA, and is apparently working for B6. The real deal with this, though, is control. You hook the first 150 guys who walk through the door, and management knows that their greed will keep the rest who come after in line. Those guys could care less about what their hourly rate is, they just want the stock price to go up, because thats where the real money is.

Of course, the thing about the start-up is this...no chance at "big" iron and no real international flying. So much for adventure...hello Akron, Ohio. Just enough money to keep you in credit card debt as you try to live the "pilot lifestyle", but without the real money.

But back to the question at hand...so you pay 100k or more for a degree and your ratings. Work slummy jobs for 6 years or more just to be "qualified" and what does it get you? A CHANCE, that's right, a miniscule CHANCE of getting the big money, which really isn't that big. Bust a medical or get a DUI along they way, and kiss even that miniscule chance goodbye.

Anyone with half a brain in their head could see that you could go to an Ivy League or big name school for that time and effort, and come out of it on the other end with a MUCH bigger payout. If you have the brains enough to pass the CFI oral, with its plethora of tiny details you can do well on a LSAT. If you have the capacity to pass a 727 engineer oral, you can do well on a MCAT if you study enough. If you have the stomach for working for flaming a$$holes for 6 years, then you can start a business and work for yourself, which is the only way to make any REAL money.

So, whos left to do the flying if all the smart people figure out the whole deal sucks? Well, on the civillian side, you have the trust fund kiddies, who's weathly folks will do anything to get junior out of the house. Anyone smart enough to be in the military will know it's a sucky deal and do something else OR wait until they have their 20 in.

You might run across the odd dude/dudess that's doing it for the "love", but they'll split once a better deal comes along...like mowing the grass at the local GA airport.

Nu