How long before airlines start hiring again?

[Andy Neill]

... If you are small enough that you have to report the net income of the small business along with your own personal income, it is not hard to fall into the "rich category." You could actually fall into this category and not even make a profit....

How can you not make a profit and wind up in the rich category unless your non-business income puts you there?

 

[rumorhasit]

Oh yea and good luck trying to make ANY MONEY as a flight instructor (independent...ie small business). With the proposed user fees and the 12500 lbs security regs dont worry about getting a flying gig.

Obama has killed 12 years of stock market growth in his first 100 days.

 

[crj567]

How can you not make a profit and wind up in the rich category unless your non-business income puts you there?

I am no accountant, but I think it would be easy to go over this threshold with a small business (many small businesses are structured so that the owner has to file income as personal income).... It really depends on whether the $250K is defined as net or gross income... If it is defined as gross, it would actually be easy to be above that level and even take an actual loss... Operating expenses>gross income=Net loss. (also keep in mind that Obama will be eliminating many of the deductions people in this category could have made.)

PLUS- Obama will bring back the Estate Tax... This horrible confiscatory tax is my favorite target-it puts the screws to anyone who has played by the rules their whole lives and managed to accumulate some wealth (such as any farmer with 1,000 acres or more of family land.) The govt. just comes and takes about half when you die-just because. The real kicker is: Scumbags like Ted Kennedy get to skate by tax-free because their rich-ass-bootlegging daddy set them up an irrevokable trust! That ass never had to work a day in his drunk life.

-Obma will completely destroy this economy, and grin like a big-eared idiot while doing so!

 

[Abbey]

He is "letting Bush's tax cuts expire." Capital gains, income, corporate taxes are all going way up..... Besides, jacking up taxes in a crumbing economy will only lead to a total disaster.

The real kicker is that he is going to KILL small businesses. I read somewhere that about 85% of all new jobs are created by small businesses. If you are small enough that you have to report the net income of the small business along with your own personal income, it is not hard to fall into the "rich category." You could actually fall into this category and not even make a profit.

I am not sure whether Obama is ignorant of the way the economy works, or if he actually wants to weaken our country to make it "fair" for the rest of the world. Either way, it will SUCK!

-Our country will be officially bankrupt within ten years-thanks to this fool!

Pretty much. I am going to have to limit what my small business produces in way of income so that my total income does not reach the mark of me owing the government 40% of MY work. Nothing like government mandating a population of under-achievers.

Of course, this is in fact what they want. They need their families to have zero competition.

 

[brokedash]

Oh yea and good luck trying to make ANY MONEY as a flight instructor (independent...ie small business). With the proposed user fees and the 12500 lbs security regs dont worry about getting a flying gig.

Obama has killed 12 years of stock market growth in his first 100 days.

How exactly has Obama killed the market? Did he sell off all the shares? More realisitic is the fact that the economy was was already shooting down before O got elected. This was the result of rampant greed and un-regulated speculation in the marketplace.

When the market goes down, sellers sell off and in situations where the greed resulted in colssal business failures, it only aggrevated the market further. This sent the average down. This is what has kept it down because the reality has been shown that the 10000 and 14000 pt markets were largely that high because massive amounts of greed and rampant speculation.

Will the market get better, yes. But don't act like it has to get as high as it was to say it's better. Better will actual see the market adjust and grow slower better reflecting the return to traditional pricinpales vs. the buy, buy, buy method of rampant speculators and un-educated day traders looking to get rich quick without consideration that their actions will lead to what we are currently experiencing.

 

[LivestockTony]

I am no accountant, but I think it would be easy to go over this threshold with a small business (many small businesses are structured so that the owner has to file income as personal income).... It really depends on whether the $250K is defined as net or gross income... If it is defined as gross, it would actually be easy to be above that level and even take an actual loss... Operating expenses>gross income=Net loss. (also keep in mind that Obama will be eliminating many of the deductions people in this category could have made.)

Business taxes are on the basis of net income. If you lose money you have _always_ had a credit you could carry forward. That's why people with legitimate businesses keep reciepts... to document SG&A (selling, general and administrative) expenses. If you're paying taxes (except for segregating sales taxes) on your sales reciepts, you need to get a new accountant.

The top marginal tax rate was 94% in 1944 and 1945 (ok, we were at war), and was 91% from '54-63.* Industry did just fine-- the later in particular was a point when the US was rising to the top of the world's economy and taking no prisoners. People "limiting income" to avoid 40% taxes is a bit rich.
-TF


*- figures from the first link I found with a search for 'top marginal tax rates us'. Consistant with what I'd read elsewheres anyways, but I don't know anything about the site.
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

 

[wms]

To the original question, they'll hire when the furloughs are back and continue hiring until they furlough again.

 

[lookin4better]

it will be a looooong time ...

all the regionals will look like Eagle with very senior Captains.... many will get stuck at the regionals for a career.

 

[JustaNumber]

How exactly has Obama killed the market? Did he sell off all the shares? More realisitic is the fact that the economy was was already shooting down before O got elected. This was the result of rampant greed and un-regulated speculation in the marketplace.

This pearl of conventional wisdom needs to be addressed. So many people keep repeating it, that for some it is being held up as fact. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Allow me to paste an extremely informative article by the highly respected economist Thomas Sowell, as I could not say it nearly as well.

UPSIDE DOWN ECONOMICS

From television specials to newspaper editorials, the media are pushing the idea that current economic problems were caused by the market and that only the government can rescue us. What was lacking in the housing market, they say, was government regulation of the market's "greed." That makes great moral melodrama, but it turns the facts upside down.

It was precisely government intervention which turned a thriving industry into a basket case.

An economist specializing in financial markets gave a glimpse of the history of housing markets when he said: "Lending money to American homebuyers had been one of the least risky and most profitable businesses a bank could engage in for nearly a century."

That was what the market was like before the government intervened. Like many government interventions, it began small and later grew.

The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 directed federal regulatory agencies to "encourage" banks and other lending institutions "to help meet the credit needs of the local communities in which they are chartered consistent with the safe and sound operation of such institutions."

That sounds pretty innocent and, in fact, it had little effect for more than a decade. However, its premise was that bureaucrats and politicians know where loans should go, better than people who are in the business of making loans.

The real potential of that premise became apparent in the 1990s, when the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) imposed a requirement that mortgage lenders demonstrate with hard data that they were meeting their responsibilities under the Community Reinvestment Act.

What HUD wanted were numbers showing that mortgage loans were being made to low-income and moderate-income people on a scale that HUD expected, even if this required "innovative or flexible" mortgage eligibility standards.

In other words, quotas were imposed— and if some people didn't meet the standards, then the standards need to be changed.

Both HUD and the Department of Justice began bringing lawsuits against mortgage bankers when a higher percentage of minority applicants than white applicants were turned down for mortgage loans.

A substantial majority of both black and white mortgage loan applicants had their loans approved but a statistical difference was enough to get a bank sued.

It should also be noted that the same statistical sources from which data on blacks and whites were obtained usually contained data on Asian Americans as well. But those data on Asian Americans were almost never mentioned.

Whites were turned down for mortgage loans more often than Asian Americans. But saying that would undermine the reasoning on which the whole moral melodrama and political crusades were based.

Lawsuits were only part of the pressures put on lenders by government officials. Banks and other lenders are overseen by regulatory agencies and must go to those agencies for approval of many business decisions that other businesses make without needing anyone else's approval.

Government regulators refused to approve such decisions when a lender was under investigation for not producing satisfactory statistics on loans to low-income people or minorities.

Under growing pressures from both the Clinton administration and later the George W. Bush administration, banks began to lower their lending standards.

Mortgage loans with no down payment, no income verification and other "creative" financial arrangements abounded. Although this was done under pressures begun in the name of the poor and minorities, people who were neither could also get these mortgage loans.

With mortgage loans widely available to people with questionable prospects of being able to keep up the payments, it was an open invitation to financial disaster.

Those who warned of the dangers had their warnings dismissed. Now, apparently, we need more politicians intervening in more industries, if you believe the politicians and the media.

 

[USCtrojan]

This pearl of conventional wisdom needs to be addressed. So many people keep repeating it, that for some it is being held up as fact. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Allow me to paste an extremely informative article by the highly respected economist Thomas Sowell, as I could not say it nearly as well.

UPSIDE DOWN ECONOMICS

From television specials to newspaper editorials, the media are pushing the idea that current economic problems were caused by the market and that only the government can rescue us. What was lacking in the housing market, they say, was government regulation of the market's "greed." That makes great moral melodrama, but it turns the facts upside down.

It was precisely government intervention which turned a thriving industry into a basket case.

An economist specializing in financial markets gave a glimpse of the history of housing markets when he said: "Lending money to American homebuyers had been one of the least risky and most profitable businesses a bank could engage in for nearly a century."

That was what the market was like before the government intervened. Like many government interventions, it began small and later grew.

The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 directed federal regulatory agencies to "encourage" banks and other lending institutions "to help meet the credit needs of the local communities in which they are chartered consistent with the safe and sound operation of such institutions."

That sounds pretty innocent and, in fact, it had little effect for more than a decade. However, its premise was that bureaucrats and politicians know where loans should go, better than people who are in the business of making loans.

The real potential of that premise became apparent in the 1990s, when the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) imposed a requirement that mortgage lenders demonstrate with hard data that they were meeting their responsibilities under the Community Reinvestment Act.

What HUD wanted were numbers showing that mortgage loans were being made to low-income and moderate-income people on a scale that HUD expected, even if this required "innovative or flexible" mortgage eligibility standards.

In other words, quotas were imposed— and if some people didn't meet the standards, then the standards need to be changed.

Both HUD and the Department of Justice began bringing lawsuits against mortgage bankers when a higher percentage of minority applicants than white applicants were turned down for mortgage loans.

A substantial majority of both black and white mortgage loan applicants had their loans approved but a statistical difference was enough to get a bank sued.

It should also be noted that the same statistical sources from which data on blacks and whites were obtained usually contained data on Asian Americans as well. But those data on Asian Americans were almost never mentioned.

Whites were turned down for mortgage loans more often than Asian Americans. But saying that would undermine the reasoning on which the whole moral melodrama and political crusades were based.

Lawsuits were only part of the pressures put on lenders by government officials. Banks and other lenders are overseen by regulatory agencies and must go to those agencies for approval of many business decisions that other businesses make without needing anyone else's approval.

Government regulators refused to approve such decisions when a lender was under investigation for not producing satisfactory statistics on loans to low-income people or minorities.

Under growing pressures from both the Clinton administration and later the George W. Bush administration, banks began to lower their lending standards.

Mortgage loans with no down payment, no income verification and other "creative" financial arrangements abounded. Although this was done under pressures begun in the name of the poor and minorities, people who were neither could also get these mortgage loans.

With mortgage loans widely available to people with questionable prospects of being able to keep up the payments, it was an open invitation to financial disaster.

Those who warned of the dangers had their warnings dismissed. Now, apparently, we need more politicians intervening in more industries, if you believe the politicians and the media.

And what I love most about Sowell is that he's black. He's as much of a fan of Obama, as I am.

Trojan

 

[CFI2766]

There's plenty of blame to go around.

However, the largest culprit is Barney Frank. HE owns the biggest share of the blame for all of this.

 

[cloudkicker1981]

Pretty much. I am going to have to limit what my small business produces in way of income so that my total income does not reach the mark of me owing the government 40% of MY work. Nothing like government mandating a population of under-achievers.

Of course, this is in fact what they want. They need their families to have zero competition.

If your making that kinda doe than why are you flying for the airlines? Im sure you will still be comfortable with a 40percent cut!

 

[JustaNumber]

Im sure you will still be comfortable with a 40 percent cut!

You, like most people infatuated with wealth envy, just don't get how capitalism works (and works very well). It's all about motivation. People are not motivated to work their butts off just to see their results get confiscated. People in this position will just do the minimum, as they will always become resentful of the freeloaders.

There's an interesting story of the first Thanksgiving that you were probably never taught in your government school. The first year that the pilgrims spent in Massachusetts was extremely difficult. (By the way, the only reason they stopped in Mass. instead of continuing on to Virginia was they ran out of beer). Anyway, they worked together to grow crops, but they were dying of starvation. Eventually, Governor William Bradford decided to try something different. He gave each colonist a plot of land, and told them they could keep or even sell their excess. Immediately the colony began to prosper, and the result of that prosperity became what we celebrate as Thanksgiving. Why do we not celebrate the whole story, the true capitalist origin of this country?

As much as it seems unfair, and socialism actually sounds much better, you can't fight basic human nature, and you can't argue with results.

 

[rumorhasit]

How exactly has Obama killed the market? Did he sell off all the shares? More realisitic is the fact that the economy was was already shooting down before O got elected. This was the result of rampant greed and un-regulated speculation in the marketplace.

When the market goes down, sellers sell off and in situations where the greed resulted in colssal business failures, it only aggrevated the market further. This sent the average down. This is what has kept it down because the reality has been shown that the 10000 and 14000 pt markets were largely that high because massive amounts of greed and rampant speculation.

Will the market get better, yes. But don't act like it has to get as high as it was to say it's better. Better will actual see the market adjust and grow slower better reflecting the return to traditional pricinpales vs. the buy, buy, buy method of rampant speculators and un-educated day traders looking to get rich quick without consideration that their actions will lead to what we are currently experiencing.

Well first of all the Dow is an indicator of the economy's future. Obama's policies are scaring the he!! out of the market and since his nomination the market has lost 20% of its value. And what the heck (Andy Griffith moment) is soooo wrong with getting rich?
We are currently experiencing a Barney Frank(and a lot of other dems) screw up.... encouraging Government created business(fanie/Fredie mac) to give money to anyone who wanted a house. Hence you get trickle UP FUBAR!!!!

 

[CX880]

There's plenty of blame to go around.

However, the largest culprit is Barney Frank. HE owns the biggest share of the blame for all of this.

The biggest share of the blame is the people, not any single person. Oil was also a major factor which put the dagger. You can't keep buying and selling into oblivion, pretty soon you'll get what is happening now, a near depression where nothing is worth anything anymore. People were buying houses they couldn't afford, people were doing part time real estate as if they were selling candy. People were borrowing like crazy. It's probably going to get worse this year. Now many people are saying that this is going to chance not only the U.S but the whole world economy forever. I seriously doubt it's going to be good for the airlines at least for the next few years.

 

[cloudkicker1981]

You, like most people infatuated with wealth envy, just don't get how capitalism works (and works very well). It's all about motivation. People are not motivated to work their butts off just to see their results get confiscated. People in this position will just do the minimum, as they will always become resentful of the freeloaders.

There's an interesting story of the first Thanksgiving that you were probably never taught in your government school. The first year that the pilgrims spent in Massachusetts was extremely difficult. (By the way, the only reason they stopped in Mass. instead of continuing on to Virginia was they ran out of beer). Anyway, they worked together to grow crops, but they were dying of starvation. Eventually, Governor William Bradford decided to try something different. He gave each colonist a plot of land, and told them they could keep or even sell their excess. Immediately the colony began to prosper, and the result of that prosperity became what we celebrate as Thanksgiving. Why do we not celebrate the whole story, the true capitalist origin of this country?

As much as it seems unfair, and socialism actually sounds much better, you can't fight basic human nature, and you can't argue with results.

Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Sorry my mommy and daddy couldnt send me to boarding school but they did instill some pretty good morals and values into me. I think I do ok and uncle sam got his share of my money this year too but I still believe you should be thankful for what you have and help thoughs without. Not envious of those with money at all....pretty happy with what I got.

 

[rumorhasit]

Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Sorry my mommy and daddy couldnt send me to boarding school but they did instill some pretty good morals and values into me. I think I do ok and uncle sam got his share of my money this year too but I still believe you should be thankful for what you have and help thoughs without. Not envious of those with money at all....pretty happy with what I got.

"blind eye to people who are without"? do explain?

And...."be the ball and throw yourself!!"

 

[txpilot1974]

Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Are you serious? WOW.

 

[JustaNumber]

Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Sorry my mommy and daddy couldnt send me to boarding school but they did instill some pretty good morals and values into me. I think I do ok and uncle sam got his share of my money this year too but I still believe you should be thankful for what you have and help thoughs without. Not envious of those with money at all....pretty happy with what I got.

So I guess if you want to go to heaven you should make sure that you, cloudkicker, never get rich so you don't turn evil. That's fine by me. Live and let live. But where do you get these "rules about sharing"? I believe in voluntary charitable giving, but if it's not voluntary, it's not really sharing, is it? It's more like stealing. I thought you said you were raised with good moral values? I think the bible has something to say about stealing, but it doesn't say much about mandatory sharing.

Let me ask you this: would you rather live in the United States, one of the most prosperous countries in the world due to the capitalist nature of everyone looking out for their own best interests, or would you rather live in the old Soviet Union, or Cuba, where the "rules about sharing" are strictly enforced?

 

[JustaNumber]

The biggest share of the blame is the people, not any single person. ... You can't keep buying and selling into oblivion, pretty soon you'll get what is happening now, a near depression where nothing is worth anything anymore. People were buying houses they couldn't afford, people were doing part time real estate as if they were selling candy. People were borrowing like crazy...

You, also, don't understand the real miracle that is free market capitalism. It regulates itself, it always finds equilibrium. If you leave the market alone, if you don't try to enact regulations that distort the free exchange of goods and services, then you do want people to "keep buying and selling into oblivion." It's called prosperity.

Please read the above article by Thomas Sowell. He makes it extremely clear that the primary problem was not so much people buying houses they couldn't afford (although, admittedly, that was a contributing factor), the real problem was the government interfering with lenders' ability to determine if a loan was a safe investment or not. Once Fannie and Freddie said, "don't worry about possibly losing money writing worthless mortgages, we'll just buy them from you," the stage was set for disaster. Remember, when the free market was in charge of lending and borrowing, it was one of the safest financial transactions on the planet.