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How is this Fair!!!!!!

Lifestyle

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I need some input on this:
I'm a furloughed United pilot who came up through the civilian ranks. I have just received notice that UAL will be extending pass travel for Military furloughees only. How is this fair? Why should I have to pick up my life and family and move because of a job and they don't have to. A little help here because I can't believe this is happening. I guess no one cares about a civilians lifestyle.
 

justApilot

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I can't see the reason why UAL would not extend that offer to all of its pilots on the street. Maybe they think that all of the military guys would actually be activated and therefore would not be flying around the system. And they might think that the civies would be using those bennies insearch of another job. Who knows! At AA I believe that all of our furloughees were allowed to continue using the nonrev bennies.
 

Slug

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Rumor? or Fact?

Lifestyle,

I'm a mil guy furloughed from UAL and I haven't heard anything about the said issue. In fact I spoke with an ALPA rep the other day who explained my benefits hadn't changed from what I had heard. Not saying it isn't true or anything but where'd you get your info? I find it hard to believe the company would separate the furloughees into two groups. I think the persons on mil leave may get the pass benefits, but those that are furloughed get benefits IAW the contract.

Slug
 

TRBojet

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Knight Rider is right (just joking)

I believe it's going to start sometime mid-June for active military and reservists for travel to/from domicile and their assigned military station; and they're not regular "write-your-own passes". They either get issued upon request from either your flight office or a station (not sure). I was told the reason United is not extending their pass benefits beyond the 180 days is because after that amount of time, the company would have to begin collecting taxes on all travel and they don't want to get involved in doing that right now (go figure). Why don't they put DENEV (employment) in charge of handling the tax info? They can't be that busy right now. What about jumpseat IDs for furloughed pilots? (I'm sure that travel isn't taxable) Somebody should really try to push that one on management.
 

wafu39

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Does this mean guys can get passes to go to their new jobs even if they are not guard jobs?
I don't think so!!!!!!!!
 

F/O

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It's all BS really. I mean, if Delta or AA has extended travel benefits or cabin jumpseat or whatever it is then UAL can make it work too. Let's face it, the furloughee support from the company has been a bit thin. ALPA really needs to push harder for some of this stuff; we could be out for quite some time to come.
 

Lifestyle

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Waf39,
Thank you for your statement. That exactly what I'm trying to say. Why do I have to move for a job and military folks don't have to. I would love to be able to travel from my home of record to my new pilot base instead of moving. What gives? I'm not looking for pleasure travel folks, I'm looking to get to and from work without picking up my whole life again. I don't have anything against military folks but this is completely unfair! I yes, I am crying about it.
 

AlbieF15

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LS,

Rewind the tape six months. Remember the campaign that eliminated the Taliban from power? That was the military...augmented in part by some reservists and guardsmen.

Remember all those CAPs over the country that helped settle down a VERY jittery nation? Operation Noble Eagle included a tremendous amount of the part-time military.

Have you read about some of the ongoing operations in far corners of the world--SEALs and special ops, 10th Mt. Division, etc....going in hell holes to dig out suspected terrorist cells and sympathizers? Guess you is supporting those operations...both directly and indirectly? You know the answer.

Dude...this is SO much bigger than the standard military verses civilian BS on the boards. The survival of our industry, and our entire nation, depend on a strong and capable national defense. You carrier is simply recogizing that some guys are making a noble sacrifice right now, and trying to make it easier on them.

Could UAL give passes to all pilots? I wish they would...it makes sense to me. However...the crybaby act doesn't play very sympathetic with all that is going on in the world right now. You may be furloughed...you may even be broke...but you are home in the greatest nation on Earth. Some of you UAL bros that are now out of work are going helter-skelter and yon supporting world wide taskings, and they are spending months away from family. Put your team player T-shirt on and grab a shovel...we are all in this together.

Albie
 

wafu39

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Albie.

No-one is questioning the effort being put forth, and the sacrifices being made by the many men and women in uniform. Not every pilot commuting to their Guard unit is directly invoved in the conflict. All of us have had to make sacrifices in different ways and I don't think the union or the company should differentiate between one pilot and another. We are one pilot group, lets stick together and try to make life a little easier for all furloughees.

UAL management has managed to pit one employee group against another for long enough. We should not allow them to divide the pilots the same way.

Personally, I don't need pass benefits, but I do think we should all be treated the same.
 

Clownpilot

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Quit crying

Travel is good only to and from the duty station and only when drilling. The airlines are allowing military members to serve their reserve obligations. So quit the hissy fit.
 

bigboy

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F-15.
first time I've seen you getting little tense. I see your point and I agree, but on the other hand I think UAL should have somehow included the civilian pilot group.and don't forget the dounuts when you jump seat back home.;) .
 

ninepilot

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Uh, shouldn't the Guard/Reserve units be buying airline tickets for these guys commuting to their part-time military jobs? I know my squadron does. This gives the member a reserved seat, plus puts much-needed cash in our airlines' pockets.

ninepilot
 

Caveman

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Albie15,

Nice speech but lay off the Kool-Aid dude. This is nothing more than the FFJC (Former Fighter Jock Club) taking care of their own and the patriotic spin isn't going to convince me otherwise. Every post I read on this board about the guard/reserve is more about how to get a slot and garner some income while on furlough than it is about 'defending freedom'.

UAL is being unfair about this. A pilot is a pilot is a pilot. I'm surprised that ALPA hasn't made a stink about this inequity. Either everyone rides or no one rides.
 

Simon Says

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AlbieF15,

I just want to stand up and sing "I am proud to be an American". Get real. Quit trying to toot your own horn Mr. Nobleman. I thought Noblemen don't use the term "Crybaby"

If you think you are special because you fight for this country you are standing in a very long line. You are no better than any other human being from the local bum that hangs out on the RR tracks to the President of the United States. Stand Down Sir.
 

skiddriver

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Ninepilot,

Actually, no. The regs prohibit providing money/tickets for travel to regular drills and ATP's. The only ticket that they are supposed to buy for you is the travel to annual training. That's why a lot of sites have multi-site pickup with transport A/C for regular drills.

Congress tried to vote in some relief on this issue last year in the form of a tax break or a direct stipend (around $50), never heard how it worked out.

And you know, before my last tour here as the active duty Marine site commander at a Joint Reserve Base, I used to think that the Guard/Reserve was the FFJC. You know what? I was wrong. Reserve pilots from my site regularly expend more funds than they make when they come in to drill (and I'm not talking lost wages here, I'm talking transportation - lodging - meal expenses exceeding military pay earned). Why would they do such a thing? Why would they lose money and spend time away from their families when they didn't have to? Maybe even get fully mobilized and go get shot at. Boy, it just doesn't make sense does it?

All the units here have been supporting real world ops. We just mobilized one AF res flying unit and deployed them to theater (public knowledge so no security breach posting it here). In the last couple of years I've been here, these guys have been doing Northern Watch, Southern Watch, JTF support, theater support and some other stuff best left out in this forum. Mucho time OConus and in country mobilization.

I'm sure ALPA can find a way to get this special treatment for those lazy weekend warriors turned off. Why don't you file a grievance? :rolleyes:
 

Clownpilot

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OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Well, this is obviously just a way for the civilian guys to vent since this really benefits the military guys in no way other than letting them get to their units to drill. Reserve squadrons will ONLY buy tickets to and from duty stations for annual drill periods, not for regular drills. These guys are NOT going on vacation, to see family, or just getting free travel. If they happen to live near their reserve units they don't need this and CAN'T go anywhere. They are allowed to travel to/from ONE place and back. Forget the patriotism crap. Many of the furloughed pilots are counting on their reserve income to tide them over while they are waiting to get their jobs back at the airline. Apparently, you'd rather see them have to buy tickets to get there, when they can least afford them, or lose that income because they can't get to their units. That's a pretty messed up attitude. You might be angry that you're furloughed and want to take it out on somebody, but this issue doesn't seem unreasonable to me and I support the airline's position and am grateful that they have taken it. I don't drill in the reserves, but if that were my only source of income right now I'd be very happy if I had a way to get to that job.

What a bunch of bitter crybabies. Sickening.
 

Clownpilot

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??????????

If you get another job flying then you get your travel back with that company. These guys have had their ability to get to their reserve jobs removed and could lose 2 jobs for the price of one when their furlough happens. Pretty sad to lose both your jobs because you lose one. You are talking about getting a NEW job and using your old company to get to your new one. Try this. Take a job you can get to. Now if you already worked that job and were being cut off by your furlough then maybe you'd have a point. Otherwise, it's just more civilian pilot inferiority rearing it's ugly head.


Lifestyle said:
Waf39,
Thank you for your statement. That exactly what I'm trying to say. Why do I have to move for a job and military folks don't have to. I would love to be able to travel from my home of record to my new pilot base instead of moving. What gives? I'm not looking for pleasure travel folks, I'm looking to get to and from work without picking up my whole life again. I don't have anything against military folks but this is completely unfair! I yes, I am crying about it.
 
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Clownpilot

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Fine

I wil absolutely, completely support your right to ride back and forth with me to and from my reserve unit no matter how remote and ridiculous that may be. Just ride back and forth all day long and hopefully that will make you happy. I hope you really like the remote regions of eastern PA since that's where you're going...................you imbecile.


Caveman said:
Albie15,

Nice speech but lay off the Kool-Aid dude. This is nothing more than the FFJC (Former Fighter Jock Club) taking care of their own and the patriotic spin isn't going to convince me otherwise. Every post I read on this board about the guard/reserve is more about how to get a slot and garner some income while on furlough than it is about 'defending freedom'.

UAL is being unfair about this. A pilot is a pilot is a pilot. I'm surprised that ALPA hasn't made a stink about this inequity. Either everyone rides or no one rides.
 

Caveman

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I don't have a problem with UAL allowing furloughed pilots to keep pass benefits. In fact I think it's a good idea. I do think it's unfair to say that only the military pilots can have them and I think it's disingenuous to say it's for patriotic reasons when it clearly isn't. Furloughed civilian pilots may also have to travel to get to work. I don't want the military guys to lose the priviledge, I just think it should be offered to all the furloughed UAL pilots.

Mike,

For the last time, I'm a retired Marine. 20+ years. I earned it and I'm going to proudly display it. Get over it.

SkidDriver,

I agree with you on a couple of points. My last tour was with an I&I Staff. Initially I had the typical active duty negative attitude towards the reserves. It took me about 2 drill weekends to change my mind. In the Marine Corps reservists are expected to complete all the annual training that the regular Marine Corps does and they only have 11 weekends and one 2 week period to get it all done. They are also expected to be as proficient in all these areas as their active duty counterparts. They essentially don't have a single day off the first half of every month because they work all week, drill that weekend, and then work all the next week until their first day off. Anybody in any type of leadership position in the reserve unit also puts in many hours of 'off duty' time to prepare for the drill weekend. I am a big convert and big fan of the Marine Corps Reserve community and they are essential to our county's defense. One correction, reservists do not pay for their own lodging while drilling if they live outside the area. BTW, congrats on being hired at Comair.
 
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