How far would you go for jet time?

[HMR]

I was just reading the "day in the life" article in the new issue of AIN. I almost spit out my gum when I read the part about this guy. Background: He shows up at Clay Lacy in VNY for a 9am flight in his Lear25 only to find out it's been rescheduled to 6pm.

"With more than 8 hours until the next flight, (name removed) might be expected to return home, except that home is in Prescott, Ariz. A 1990 graduate of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University there, he worked as a flight instructor until five months ago, when Clay Lacy hired him to fly the Learjet right seat. Now he thinks in Mach numbers and flight levels rather than in knots and feet.
(Name removed) drives the 12-hour round-trip commute from Prescott to Van Nuys about three times a month."

WOW!
How much does Lacy pay to fly right seat in a Lear 25? (Not much)
Have you ever poked your head into one of Lacy's Lear 25's? (Not good)
Is the job market really this bad?

This should make the cover of Pro Pilot soon.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I was just reading the "day in the life" article in the new issue of AIN. I almost spit out my gum when I read the part about this guy. Background: He shows up at Clay Lacy in VNY for a 9am flight in his Lear25 only to find out it's been rescheduled to 6pm.

"With more than 8 hours until the next flight, (name removed) might be expected to return home, except that home is in Prescott, Ariz. A 1990 graduate of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University there, he worked as a flight instructor until five months ago, when Clay Lacy hired him to fly the Learjet right seat. Now he thinks in Mach numbers and flight levels rather than in knots and feet.
(Name removed) drives the 12-hour round-trip commute from Prescott to Van Nuys about three times a month."

WOW!
How much does Lacy pay to fly right seat in a Lear 25? (Not much)
Have you ever poked your head into one of Lacy's Lear 25's? (Not good)
Is the job market really this bad?

This should make the cover of Pro Pilot soon.

Isn't 9 just 6 upside down?

Details, details.

Ace

 

[1973Arrow]

If I knew who that was I'd send him some knee pads and maybe a bigg bottle of KY.

 

[psysicx]

How long are these trips?

 

[banned username 2]

A 1990 graduate of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University there, he worked as a flight instructor until five months ago, when Clay Lacy hired him to fly the Learjet right seat. Now he thinks in Mach numbers and flight levels rather than in knots and feet.

Geez... I graduated with this guy... WTF has he been doing for the past 15 years??? I looked up his name in the AIN article, I don't think I know him...

 

[smellthejeta]

If he only does it three times per month, I'm curious as to why he just doesn't fly WN from PHX to BUR. No matter how long that takes him, it has *got* to be better than driving.

 

[Checks]

No duty day issues there!

Someone send that article to the FSDO, 91.13

 

[hawkerjet]

the answer for me is 3100 hours TT. since i received my commercial cert. i was trying to get into a jet. along the way, i flew cabin class twins in the midwest, and rockies, turbo props in the california sierra's and finally got my jet job when i had 3100TT with 2200 multi with all that multi pic.
PS. as you might have surmised, i did not PFT.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

Well, all I can say is, Prescott beats living around Van Nuys on what he's being paid any day. I'm sure he has his reasons and not wanting to move the family is probably one of them. Either way, it is his choice and I have known several pilots in this industry over the years to make the same decision.

 

[banned username 2]

Well, all I can say is, Prescott beats living around Van Nuys on what he's being paid any day. I'm sure he has his reasons and not wanting to move the family is probably one of them. Either way, it is his choice and I have known several pilots in this industry over the years to make the same decision.

I agree Prescott was a great place to live (well I loved it anyhow, the way it was 15-20 years ago)... I just can't imagine working as a CFI at Riddle for 15 years after graduation... Hey, to each their own... But in the eyes of future employers, they gotta wonder why he didn't try to advance himself...

 

[CorpLearDriver]

I agree Prescott was a great place to live (well I loved it anyhow, the way it was 15-20 years ago)... I just can't imagine working as a CFI at Riddle for 15 years after graduation... Hey, to each their own... But in the eyes of future employers, they gotta wonder why he didn't try to advance himself...

I wouldn't. Timing, responsibilities at the time, a lot of things could factor in. Some people just have different priorities in life and like you said, to each his own. I was with one company for over 14 years that most pilots used as a jumping off point to move on to other jobs. Then I went through a couple of fairly quick job changes and now I find myself wandering all over the world. Each person's career course is their own. We should not judge them by where we are or what we would have done.

I once knew a CFI/Examiner out of Fullerton, CA, Travis Flanery, that had some 30,000+ hours, most of which was instruction given. He had tried other jobs but always came back to instructing because that was what he enjoyed the most. And he was in a community at the airport that loved him until the day he died.

 

[eljefe]

II once knew a CFI/Examiner out of Fullerton, CA, Travis Flanery, that had some 30,000+ hours, most of which was instruction given. He had tried other jobs but always came back to instructing because that was what he enjoyed the most. And he was in a community at the airport that loved him until the day he died.

Reading that made me smile. I knew a guy like that too....at Daniel Field in August, GA. When I knew him in the 60's he had 25,000+ hours of dual given. The guy was amazing.

He obviously found his niche and aviation was the better for it.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

He obviously found his niche and aviation was the better for it.

We should all hope to be so blessed.

 

[banned username 2]

I wouldn't. Timing, responsibilities at the time, a lot of things could factor in. Some people just have different priorities in life and like you said, to each his own. I was with one company for over 14 years that most pilots used as a jumping off point to move on to other jobs. Then I went through a couple of fairly quick job changes and now I find myself wandering all over the world. Each person's career course is their own. We should not judge them by where we are or what we would have done.

I once knew a CFI/Examiner out of Fullerton, CA, Travis Flanery, that had some 30,000+ hours, most of which was instruction given. He had tried other jobs but always came back to instructing because that was what he enjoyed the most. And he was in a community at the airport that loved him until the day he died.

That's exactly why I said "To each their own..." But it appears that CFIing wasn't his dream, as he is now working for Clay Lacy (voluntarily), but then again, changing jobs is rough, and sometimes people get into that "comfort factor" that is hard to give up... I went back to campus 7 years after graduation (right after I started my current job) and found out my RA was still working their as a CFI... I think he has since moved on...

Like I said in another thread, if I could find that secure, 2 day a week, King Air 300 job in Iowa paying $175k a year, I'd be all over that in a heartbeat as well. I know quite a few people who would think I was nuts to do that... I'm not holding my breath on finding that one, so until then, I'll stick to flying the G-V, because it pays the bills...

 

[CorpLearDriver]

That's exactly why I said "To each their own..." But it appears that CFIing wasn't his dream, as he is now working for Clay Lacy (voluntarily), but then again, changing jobs is rough, and sometimes people get into that "comfort factor" that is hard to give up... I went back to campus 7 years after graduation (right after I started my current job) and found out my RA was still working their as a CFI... I think he has since moved on...

Like I said in another thread, if I could find that secure, 2 day a week, King Air 300 job in Iowa paying $175k a year, I'd be all over that in a heartbeat as well. I know quite a few people who would think I was nuts to do that... I'm not holding my breath on finding that one, so until then, I'll stick to flying the G-V, because it pays the bills...

Well, hopefully one day that job will come along for ya'.

 

[HMR]

But in the eyes of future employers, they gotta wonder why he didn't try to advance himself...

Good point.
There's a career progression that's considered "normal". Being a CFI for 15 years then jumping into the right seat of a Lear 25 isn't normal. Neither is flying around the pattern in a 172 for 30,000hrs. I know guys like this. They aren't loveable experts about aviation; they're weird. Every 5,000+hr "Chief Instructor" I've ever worked under or known has had some social problem that's caused them to be stuck in an entry level position.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

Good point.
There's a career progression that's considered "normal". Being a CFI for 15 years then jumping into the right seat of a Lear 25 isn't normal. Neither is flying around the pattern in a 172 for 30,000hrs. I know guys like this. They aren't loveable experts about aviation; they're weird. Every 5,000+hr "Chief Instructor" I've ever worked under or known has had some social problem that's caused them to be stuck in an entry level position.

This guy may well be as you say "weird." But unless you know him personally, you can't say it is a certainty. And as far as people flying around in Cessnas for 30,000 hours, in the 70's when I learned to fly, there were a lot of folks that fit that mould. It may seem odd now, but it wasn't then. Deregulation of the airlines hadn't taken place yet and movement in the pilot ranks was dead slow if not non-existant. So instructing paid the bills.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Good point.
There's a career progression that's considered "normal". Being a CFI for 15 years then jumping into the right seat of a Lear 25 isn't normal. Neither is flying around the pattern in a 172 for 30,000hrs. I know guys like this. They aren't loveable experts about aviation; they're weird. Every 5,000+hr "Chief Instructor" I've ever worked under or known has had some social problem that's caused them to be stuck in an entry level position.

Oh no. Now you're sounding like me. You're gonna get your a$$ chewed for that one. Just remember, leave English alone, she's under my protection.

Ace

 

[XTW]

If I knew who that was I'd send him some knee pads and maybe a bigg bottle of KY.

What makes this quote the best, is that when combined with the poster's avatar, it makes you say, "Hmm".

 

[aeronautic1]

I was just reading the "day in the life" article in the new issue of AIN. I almost spit out my gum when I read the part about this guy. Background: He shows up at Clay Lacy in VNY for a 9am flight in his Lear25 only to find out it's been rescheduled to 6pm.

"With more than 8 hours until the next flight, (name removed) might be expected to return home, except that home is in Prescott, Ariz. A 1990 graduate of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University there, he worked as a flight instructor until five months ago, when Clay Lacy hired him to fly the Learjet right seat. Now he thinks in Mach numbers and flight levels rather than in knots and feet.
(Name removed) drives the 12-hour round-trip commute from Prescott to Van Nuys about three times a month."

WOW!
How much does Lacy pay to fly right seat in a Lear 25? (Not much)
Have you ever poked your head into one of Lacy's Lear 25's? (Not good)
Is the job market really this bad?

This should make the cover of Pro Pilot soon.

ERAU Grad... enough said!!

 

[User546]

Personally, I wouldn't care to drive over 2 hours for jet time. I do some contract work on the side, and the farthest I've ever driven was 3 hours (to pickup an aircraft). Don't care much for that personally.

I know a guy that drives from Little Rock, AR to Oklahoma City just to ride right-seat in a CJ every chance he gets.

Nothings wrong with that I suppose, but he was even going to fly a trip down to Mexico that was going to overlap his wife's time of giving birth to their second child. Once the Captain found out about that, he promptly took the guy off the trip - and the guy was furious about it.

I also know a girl back home that flies commercially from Arizona to Iowa so that she can fly right-seat from time to time in a King Air 90. I don't get the impression that she's getting paid for it, and nevermind the whole logging time issue! She's a flight instructor with about 2,000 hours, so atleast she's building some real world experience and knowledge regardless.

Ahhh to each their own I suppose!

 

[English]

Oh no. Now you're sounding like me. You're gonna get your a$$ chewed for that one. Just remember, leave English alone, she's under my protection.

Ace

Wow, I have protection now? COOL!

How much flamebait can I get away with?

 

[G100driver]

This guy may well be as you say "weird." But unless you know him personally, you can't say it is a certainty. And as far as people flying around in Cessnas for 30,000 hours, in the 70's when I learned to fly, there were a lot of folks that fit that mould. It may seem odd now, but it wasn't then. Deregulation of the airlines hadn't taken place yet and movement in the pilot ranks was dead slow if not non-existant. So instructing paid the bills.

CorpLearDriver .... The guy in HMR's post is flippin WEIRD. I do not even know but him but he definately WEIRD. Like you stated in the 70's corporate jobs were few and far between and the airlines would not even look at you if you were over 29.

Now days though ... 15 year instructor??? WTF? WEIRD! Now he goes to Clay Lacy??? Is that all he can find? Not only is he WEIRD but he probably lacks a few skills (whether it is interpersonal or flying wise) I wonder how many times he was turned down by Great Lakes and Mesa? Yes it is a broad brush to paint with, but we all have met this type of guy and he is most likely not the type of guy who want to go out with and have a few beers. If anything you ask him about some obscure reg because he sits around and reads FAR's in free time just in case some guy asks him how and where he can fly VFR at FL355 within the US or where he can fly at 300 knots below 10,000. (try and figure that out ... English I am waiting for your reply )

 

[aeronautic1]

If anything you ask him about some obscure reg because he sits around and reads FAR's in free time just in case some guy asks him how and where he can fly VFR at FL355 within the US or where he can fly at 300 knots below 10,000. (try and figure that out ... English I am waiting for your reply )

You mean besides Alert Areas and MOA?

 

[G100driver]

You mean besides Alert Areas and MOA?

Yes .....

 

[CorpLearDriver]

You mean besides Alert Areas and MOA?

And more than 12 miles offshore.

G100Driver: Well, I don't (are hardly ever anyway) make those kind of snap character judgments. But then again, I'm probably weird to many folks as well. Never bothered me before and it won't bother me now or in the future. I do what I enjoy and don't answer to anyone else's call. But I do acknowlege your viewpoint.

 

[G100driver]

Snap yea probably But it does raise the red flag that was why I mentioned. Let me put it this way he would not be my 1st choice and yes it would prejudice me. I know that there will be EXCEPTIONS to this generalization, but that is what they are, EXCEPTIONS.

Correct on the 12 miles, but how about the VFR at FL 355? Where can you both of these within 15 minutes of each other? (this was a CFI question for me when I took my checkride. The examiner was nice enough to call me the night before to get an answer the next day)

 

[xdrvr]

No the markets not really that bad, all of the replies pretty much sum it up. Guys who make the long commutes usually have good reasons... family quality of life (an apt in VNY vs nice place in Prescott) etc... some have wives who won't relocate.. he probably got word that his trip cncld then they sprung it on him about the 6p... who knows... hopefully there's some logical reason as to why he didn't just get a room. Hopefully he's not one to go around the block when he could have just gone across the street, ya know what I mean?