How does the military choose which pilot goes to the war?

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

No chip on my shoulder. I was the good soldier on active duty and kept my grumblings to myself. I realized it was not fair to the younger guys if their AC was bitching so I always had a positive attitude. I stand by every word in my orginial post. Do you guys really believe the propaganda the Majcoms put out about average days deployed!? Maybe if you factor in the non-mission ready Wg/CC and the myriad of execs. 10 folks who were deployed 0 days lower the average for the guys deployed over 200.

I was deployed over 220 days in 2003, 2004, and was half way there in 2005 before my separation. Check with any tanker pilot and they'll tell you similar stats.

The last week of March 2003 saw numerous reports of KC-135s being fired upon. It was a miracle none were lost. I saw AAA, I saw manpads, and I took evasive action to avoid it. You pointy nose jet guys can roll your eyes all you want, but it was a significant life event for me to take a tanker into 75 degrees of bank while making a 180 degree turn because there were airburst so close in front of us that we could feel the percussion. Also, keep in mind I had as much tactical maneuvering training as the average RJ pilot at American Eagle--which is to say none.

I never refueled MC-130s while being fired upon. You guys generally took your gas in safer places. But it was a daily occurrence for a few weeks while refueling the F-16s and A-10s. The Iraqis knew that if they turned on their radar guidance systems that the F-16s would kill them. Thus they threw up a lot of unguided stuff at the tankers. Maybe I am being overdramatic. The guys logging combat time today over Iraq should not be bragging about it because that's a joke. But tanker guys who logged combat and combat support time in March/April 2003 should be proud of it and not apologetic towards anyone.

An on a final note. I was extremely disappointed by O-5 and above leadership during the last few years. You can't paint everyone with the same brush and there were/are some great leaders out there. It just seemed to me that they cared more about their careers than they did about their deployed troops.

 

[stonewall]

I'm not rolling my eyes at you and you should be proud of what you did. I have friends in all MAJCOMS and in most MWS. It's a team effort. I've never bragged about combat time turning in circles.

I think you were a little overdramatic, but I wasn't sitting next to you. I just saw (and continue to see) much different leaders and a much different AF than you saw.


PS. Q: What's the definition of "heavy fire?"
A: Anything coming at you!

 

[Fox-Tree]

The last week of March 2003 saw numerous reports of KC-135s being fired upon. It was a miracle none were lost. I saw AAA, I saw manpads, and I took evasive action to avoid it. ............... But it was a daily occurrence for a few weeks while refueling the F-16s and A-10s.

If this is true: I'll tell you what the miracle is....

That you let the guy picking the location of air refueling tracks do it more than once! Probably the same guy that manages to fly in the weather at the bottom of the refueling block when it's clear 1000' above.

Give me a break. Iraq is big enough to find a spot that's not directly over a few ragheads with manpads and some AAA.

I'm sure the A-10/F-16 pilots would have been more than willing to drive a few extra miles away from the bad guys to get some gas. Most A-10/F-16 pilots I know are smart enough to take whatever steps necessary to avoid making this a "daily occurrence".

Strange how in 1991, we were able to orchestrate the largest offensive air operation since Vietnam, with the Iraqi military completely intact without getting shot at while refueling. They gave medals to some tanker guys just for flying into Iraq to help a fighter bro who was hurting on gas. Somehow in 2003, with the Iraqi military a fraction of its former self, we couldn't find a safe location to avoid dodging AAA and manpads in the AAR tracks?

 

[Traderd]

How exacty does the military choose which pilots go to war and which ones don't. It s based on years of experience?

In the Army, they stick a mirror under your nose. If it fogs up, off you go.

 

[TankerDriver]

Do you guys really believe the propaganda the Majcoms put out about average days deployed!? Maybe if you factor in the non-mission ready Wg/CC and the myriad of execs. 10 folks who were deployed 0 days lower the average for the guys deployed over 200.

I was deployed over 220 days in 2003, 2004, and was half way there in 2005 before my separation. Check with any tanker pilot and they'll tell you similar stats.

I would have to agree. Duece, as a C-130 guy, considering it's the most deployed airframe in AMC, I would have thought you'd know better not to buy into those bull$hit TDY numbers. The KC-135 is the 2nd most deployed airframe in AMC right now, slightly behind the 130. We're actually gone more than the C-17 guys. This is right from 18th AF commander, General Hawkins mouth. "The latest stats had rescue and AFSOC leading the way with something around 118 days a year on average." I don't know where the heck they are getting those numbers from, but again, they're bull$hit. I was TDY to the desert 130 days between the middle of July of '05 and the end of Jan '06. I got almost exactly two months home between deployments. 130 days in 7 months and that was actually a little below what we have been considering "average" for line pilots around here. Of course this doesn't include the TACC taskings we get while we're home that send us away for 7-10 days on average. I know guys that have been TDY 275+ days a year in the tanker. Now, I'm not bitching and moaning and trying to make this a TDY pissing match, but my point is, those numbers are BS. To get those numbers, they count everyone in the ops group. Out of 40 or so pilots in my squadron, a good 8-10 of them are undeployable right now because they have group jobs and need to fly a desk. That's just 1 of 4 squadrons here. Of course, all the 0's that these pilots contribute to the average drop it down significantly.

 

[chum2]

How exacty does the military choose which pilots go to war and which ones don't.

If you got wings, you're on the hook.

 

[K-Mart]

Maybe if you factor in the non-mission ready Wg/CC and the myriad of execs.

I wouldn't want that job for the life of me. A WG/CC for the most parts has done his duty and more. Talk about pulling your hair out. I wouldn't want to do it. Give them that at least. They have a very hard job. Long hours beyond long.

10 folks who were deployed 0 days lower the average for the guys deployed over 200.

Don't keep score just worry about doing a good job in your current position. That is what matters most. Have fun and always remember you are blessed for where you are at!

I was deployed over 220 days in 2003, 2004, and was half way there in 2005 before my separation. Check with any tanker pilot and they'll tell you similar stats.

Again don't keep score!

The last week of March 2003 saw numerous reports of KC-135s being fired upon. It was a miracle none were lost. I saw AAA, I saw manpads, and I took evasive action to avoid it. You pointy nose jet guys can roll your eyes all you want, but it was a significant life event for me to take a tanker into 75 degrees of bank while making a 180 degree turn because there were airburst so close in front of us that we could feel the percussion. Also, keep in mind I had as much tactical maneuvering training as the average RJ pilot at American Eagle--which is to say none.

You should be proud!

The guys logging combat time today over Iraq should not be bragging about it because that's a joke.

Couldn't agree more!

An on a final note. I was extremely disappointed by O-5 and above leadership during the last few years.

Can't blame you especially when it comes to those trying to get ahead. What it boils down to though is the AF Active Duty is a culture wrapped around a promotion up or out mentality. It is a career and if you want to stay then playing the game is a must. If you don't play the game and expect to be rewarded ( As if you are staying in to be an 0-5), you will be disapointed and disgruntled. You can be the ace of the base but if leaders above feel you aren't in it for the long run then likely you will be rated average. That is the way it is and always will be. Who cares though, being a good guy (or gal) and a good pilot are what is important,nt what the SQ/CC says on your OPR or whether or not you won CG or IP of the year. It's politics that earn those rewards. And kudos to those that achieve them. It is not easy. I wouldn't take anything too seriously about your AF career! It's a little like the Boy Scouts. You do it, learn a lot, make some friends but going into high school you have other priorities. Like sports, girls and beer. To those that stay and get there eagle badge (0-5) congrats!!!!!

 

[Fletch F Fletch]

Try not to strain your shoulders patting yourselves on the back. The dude who asked the question is working on his privates. Jeesh.

 

[SIG600]

In the Army, they stick a mirror under your nose. If it fogs up, off you go.

Is there a time limit to how long you can hold your breath?